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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone

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the podcast from australia for science

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and reason

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic's own podcast

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episode number 631

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for the 15th of november 2020

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richard saunders coming to you from

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sydney australia and the weather is

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warming up

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summer is coming which is all very well

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but it means winter

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is coming colder weather is coming for

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the northern hemisphere and right now

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i know they really don't need that they

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really don't need that the good news for

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australians is the

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covert situation here is doing very well

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the

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rate of infection is extremely low and

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australia and new zealand are looking

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quite good at the moment as opposed to

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much of the rest of the world especially

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the united states and

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much of europe which is not doing too

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well at the moment and things look

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to be getting worse not a good story not

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a good story at all

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and that sort of leads me on to the

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first segment in today's episode an

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interview with klaus

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larsen from denmark now klaus has an i.t

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background but he's been a skeptic for

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many years and

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is internationally recognized as a

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writer

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for skeptica the network of independent

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skeptics in denmark

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now klaus was living in new york when

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the september 11

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attacks happened and now

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he is one of the people behind 9 11

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facts a web page which is 911.d

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all about the multitude of conspiracy

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theories about 911

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and we'll be interviewing klaus coming

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up about that page

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and more recently of course his

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investigations

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into covert 19 conspiracy theories

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and after that it's logical fallacy

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segment with

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michelle bickersma and this week

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michelle will be

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looking at the appeal to the stone

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what does that mean what is the appeal

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to the stone

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find out with michelle because ma coming

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up a bit later on in the show

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then to round off the show it's another

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trip another dive another journey

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through the treasure trove at trove

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the digitized resource from the

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australian government and the national

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library of australia

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we're going to be looking at references

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in the past to the australian skeptics

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why did they make the news who was

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writing about them

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find out to round off this week's

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episode

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but now it's time for me to run

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downstairs grab a glass of champagne

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and toast those people who have just had

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a birthday

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happy birthday to you and those people

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who have just turned 18 you can vote now

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what a thrill that is

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downstairs and

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celebrate with you i hope you enjoy the

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[Music]

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and joining me on the line now all the

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way from beautiful or is it wonderful or

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is it what i can't remember what pretty

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beautiful beautiful

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copenhagen in denmark it's klaus larson

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hello klaus

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hello well you've heard that one before

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huh

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yeah it's wonderful copenhagen wonderful

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i knew it was something like that i've

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never been to wonderful copenhagen i'd

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oh you should come i should well i will

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i

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take you on the

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skeptical tour of copenhagen because we

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have something

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really amazing here we have the holy

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grail of modern day skepticism

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right here in copenhagen and i'm not

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going to tell you what it is because i

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want it to be

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a surprise and believe me it's a

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surprise

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it's worth the whole trip

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no she's not well i won't bother i won't

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bother to come anymore

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i look for wow that's enticing that

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that's interesting yes

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that's pleasing yeah now klaus i was

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thoroughly enjoyed watching uh and

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taking part in of course

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the skype track at dragoncon only a

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couple of months ago in atlanta georgia

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and um it was very uh thrilling for me

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to take part

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as one of the speakers but i was

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watching all the other speakers too of

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course and i was so impressed i was so

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interested by

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your talk um about conspiracy theories

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and i thought that was absolutely

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fascinating

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so tell us a little bit about uh who you

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are

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first of all and uh what led you to all

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this interesting conspiracy theories

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well i used to live in new york

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from 2000 to 2003 so i experienced 911

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up close and personal not an experience

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i would

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and i knew that there were some

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conspiracies regarding that

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but when i had returned to denmark in

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uh by the time it was 2009

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uh i accidentally came across a

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demonstration

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uh in in

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just outside city hall in copenhagen

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where some truthers

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had set up their plaques and you know

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was telling everyone that 911 was an

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inside job

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and so i got talking i started talking

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to them and

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each and every one of them lied to me

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about something about 9 11. that's a

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really bad idea don't lie to me

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so i got pretty pissed uh when i went

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home

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so i wrote an article about it for the

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danish skeptics

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skepticate.dk and

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that brought me that got me in contact

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with the steen svenholm

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who was also looking into uh conspiracy

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theories

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regarding 911 and uh that made us

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uh we decided to create 911 facts.decay

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where we investigate conspiracy theories

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about the terror attack on 9 11.

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and we launched in 2011 we have

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investigated about a hundred claims

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each with their own article the articles

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are now available in both

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danish and english and we found that the

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articles are incredibly

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effective in debates because conspiracy

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theorists focus on questions

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they feel haven't been answered so we

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simply point to the articles

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there you go might your questions are

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now answered

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and we all we've also made uh created

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fact sheets and articles with a broader

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scope and a collection of all available

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documentation

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regarding the terror attack wow so that

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folks just

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and i'll link to this in the show notes

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of course that is 9 11

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so that's 911.dkdk for denmark of course

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and you see so you've you've obviously

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done a lot of

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research what does that mean what does

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that involve exactly

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well um it wasn't intended as such

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as at first but as a result uh we began

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to research more deeply why people

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believe conspiracy theories and what can

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be done about it

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because we keep a close eye on the

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existing and emerging research and we've

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come up with a couple of findings of our

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own

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so far it's still early days but so far

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our findings seem to hold up to scrutiny

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in part because we haven't found

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anything that go against

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the bulk of the existing research our

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findings are more of an

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extra layer of understanding our main

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discovery

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uh is that it's what we call the herit

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syndrome

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it's named after niels harrett you know

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the famous uh

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danish conspiracy theorist who claims to

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have found nanothermite in the duster

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from ground zero in manhattan

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following the terror attack all right um

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now the existing research explains why

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people become conspiracy theorists but

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it doesn't explain

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uh the two types of conspiracy theories

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that we have

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identified all right okay two types two

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types

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type one is the what we call the novice

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conspiracy theorist

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he believes in one or more conspiracies

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but he doesn't connect them

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and he can normally be reasoned with at

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least to a certain extent

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type 2 is the evangelical

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conspiracy theorist he has experienced a

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revelation

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where he sees all conspiracy theories as

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connected

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as part of a larger plan and

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the experience is similar to what

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religious people experience

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when they are visited by saints or talk

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directly to god

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right there seems to be

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more of type 1 than type 2 but it's the

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type 2 that's far more influential

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because type 2 sees themselves as

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oracles and they are considered gurus

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and prophets

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among other conspiracy theorists there's

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another difference

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type 2 type 1 is rather innocuous but

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type 2 they're far more aggressive and

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exhibit

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uh trans transboundary behavior uh

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some will even resort to uh crime

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we've been we have experienced that some

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have

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stolen our articles hmm so

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it it that's disconcerting uh how do

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they be how

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does uh people become type 2 uh

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there's always a carrier of illumination

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a messenger

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people don't seem to go from normal or

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type 1

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to type 2 on their own the carrier can

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be

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videos lectures or a tv show books

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they're usually recommended by other

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evangelical conspiracy theorists

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type two now as for

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research into conspiracy theories the

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existing

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literature explains why a person becomes

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a novice

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conspiracy theorist the heritage

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syndrome but we have

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come up with explains why a person

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becomes an evangelical conspiracy

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theorist

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i don't know are we right time will tell

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we may not be and we are careful not to

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present our findings as the ultimate

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truth let's see how it pans out so far

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we seem to be on to something well i

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mean you're sort of making a lot of

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sense and i've certainly met

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both types that you speak of and now you

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mention it now

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you say it that way i guess you're

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writing so much as most people i

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certainly come across would be type

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what you would call the type one the

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novice the people who think something's

288
00:11:21,990 --> 00:11:19,920
going on

289
00:11:23,190 --> 00:11:22,000
but yes the type two are really wrapped

290
00:11:24,310 --> 00:11:23,200
up into it it's like their whole

291
00:11:26,470 --> 00:11:24,320
existence

292
00:11:27,829 --> 00:11:26,480
sort of depends on this precisely and we

293
00:11:29,590 --> 00:11:27,839
see the slot in the in

294
00:11:31,829 --> 00:11:29,600
well especially i would have to say the

295
00:11:34,150 --> 00:11:31,839
anti-vaccination movement though

296
00:11:35,829 --> 00:11:34,160
quite a lot of type 2 uh conspiracy

297
00:11:37,670 --> 00:11:35,839
theories wrapped up in that but uh

298
00:11:39,990 --> 00:11:37,680
how how how do you work this how do you

299
00:11:43,190 --> 00:11:40,000
go about doing this

300
00:11:44,949 --> 00:11:43,200
well uh my uh background is i.t so i'm a

301
00:11:48,790 --> 00:11:44,959
very methodical guy

302
00:11:51,509 --> 00:11:48,800
and quite early we we had to develop

303
00:11:52,389 --> 00:11:51,519
some kind of method to approach this and

304
00:11:55,590 --> 00:11:52,399
we

305
00:11:58,870 --> 00:11:55,600
the w3 method

306
00:12:00,629 --> 00:11:58,880
what why and where to okay what are

307
00:12:02,710 --> 00:12:00,639
conspiracy theories

308
00:12:04,629 --> 00:12:02,720
why do people believe in them and where

309
00:12:06,629 --> 00:12:04,639
do we go from here

310
00:12:07,670 --> 00:12:06,639
we can't begin to fight false beliefs

311
00:12:10,790 --> 00:12:07,680
until we understand

312
00:12:12,629 --> 00:12:10,800
what those false beliefs are but we also

313
00:12:13,350 --> 00:12:12,639
need to understand why people believe

314
00:12:16,310 --> 00:12:13,360
falsehoods

315
00:12:16,790 --> 00:12:16,320
before we can do anything about them we

316
00:12:20,949 --> 00:12:16,800
don't

317
00:12:22,710 --> 00:12:20,959
goal of ridiculing conspiracy theorists

318
00:12:24,550 --> 00:12:22,720
we don't assume from the beginning that

319
00:12:26,310 --> 00:12:24,560
their claims are false

320
00:12:27,829 --> 00:12:26,320
we've decided to take the conspiracy

321
00:12:31,110 --> 00:12:27,839
theorists seriously

322
00:12:32,629 --> 00:12:31,120
very seriously they may be right even

323
00:12:35,750 --> 00:12:32,639
partly and if they are

324
00:12:37,910 --> 00:12:35,760
that needs to be acknowledged however

325
00:12:39,670 --> 00:12:37,920
if they are wrong that's equally

326
00:12:41,750 --> 00:12:39,680
important for people to know

327
00:12:43,509 --> 00:12:41,760
yeah i think i think so absolutely and

328
00:12:44,310 --> 00:12:43,519
it's impor of course it's important to

329
00:12:47,430 --> 00:12:44,320
understand

330
00:12:49,190 --> 00:12:47,440
the thinking behind the conspiracy

331
00:12:50,150 --> 00:12:49,200
theories why do people get into this

332
00:12:52,230 --> 00:12:50,160
situation

333
00:12:53,509 --> 00:12:52,240
now of course 911 is i don't know i

334
00:12:55,910 --> 00:12:53,519
guess we could call it the grandfather

335
00:12:57,269 --> 00:12:55,920
of all modern day conspiracy theories

336
00:12:58,949 --> 00:12:57,279
but let's talk about something a little

337
00:13:00,310 --> 00:12:58,959
bit um

338
00:13:02,150 --> 00:13:00,320
i don't want to say more important but i

339
00:13:03,509 --> 00:13:02,160
guess it is it's more pressing i can say

340
00:13:06,949 --> 00:13:03,519
it's more pressing in these

341
00:13:09,509 --> 00:13:06,959
this time it's the pandemic covert 19

342
00:13:11,110 --> 00:13:09,519
you must have come across a lot of covet

343
00:13:14,470 --> 00:13:11,120
19 conspiracy theories

344
00:13:17,750 --> 00:13:14,480
are there a lot out there well yeah

345
00:13:18,949 --> 00:13:17,760
it's true that the 911 has taken the

346
00:13:21,750 --> 00:13:18,959
back seat

347
00:13:22,710 --> 00:13:21,760
nowadays it's definitely covet 19 and as

348
00:13:25,030 --> 00:13:22,720
you say

349
00:13:25,829 --> 00:13:25,040
it's urgent and it's pressing people are

350
00:13:28,470 --> 00:13:25,839
dying

351
00:13:30,150 --> 00:13:28,480
more than what at this moment 1.3

352
00:13:33,030 --> 00:13:30,160
million have died

353
00:13:34,230 --> 00:13:33,040
and coveted 19 conspiracy theories

354
00:13:36,230 --> 00:13:34,240
they're interested

355
00:13:37,829 --> 00:13:36,240
interesting because they are spread by

356
00:13:40,230 --> 00:13:37,839
all levels in society

357
00:13:41,110 --> 00:13:40,240
not merely by isolated groups as we've

358
00:13:43,750 --> 00:13:41,120
seen in partic

359
00:13:45,189 --> 00:13:43,760
in particular in western societies

360
00:13:47,829 --> 00:13:45,199
truthers

361
00:13:49,509 --> 00:13:47,839
they exist in small groups here and

362
00:13:51,189 --> 00:13:49,519
there

363
00:13:52,949 --> 00:13:51,199
they've been spread by you know we can

364
00:13:54,230 --> 00:13:52,959
call them pockets of conspiracy

365
00:13:56,550 --> 00:13:54,240
theorists

366
00:13:57,829 --> 00:13:56,560
but for instance in the arab world the

367
00:13:59,910 --> 00:13:57,839
media and governments have been

368
00:14:02,790 --> 00:13:59,920
spreading conspiracy theories about

369
00:14:03,509 --> 00:14:02,800
usually involving jews ever since the

370
00:14:06,470 --> 00:14:03,519
attack

371
00:14:08,150 --> 00:14:06,480
but covet 19 theories they are being

372
00:14:11,350 --> 00:14:08,160
spread by all levels

373
00:14:13,189 --> 00:14:11,360
and in the united states in particular

374
00:14:14,550 --> 00:14:13,199
and this is a very disturbing and

375
00:14:17,269 --> 00:14:14,560
dangerous development

376
00:14:18,870 --> 00:14:17,279
yeah so so i mean within your work and

377
00:14:21,189 --> 00:14:18,880
and what you've been able to

378
00:14:22,310 --> 00:14:21,199
to gather uh how do you go about dealing

379
00:14:25,590 --> 00:14:22,320
with these uh

380
00:14:27,030 --> 00:14:25,600
covets conspiracies well there are many

381
00:14:30,230 --> 00:14:27,040
ways to uh

382
00:14:33,269 --> 00:14:30,240
approach this and there's not one that

383
00:14:34,710 --> 00:14:33,279
always works one way is to assume that

384
00:14:37,430 --> 00:14:34,720
they are true

385
00:14:38,069 --> 00:14:37,440
if we meet conspiracy theorists with an

386
00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:38,079
automatic

387
00:14:41,750 --> 00:14:40,560
you're wrong along with the evidence as

388
00:14:43,590 --> 00:14:41,760
to why

389
00:14:46,150 --> 00:14:43,600
that'll really get them interested in a

390
00:14:48,230 --> 00:14:46,160
dialogue it's crucial to examine the

391
00:14:49,829 --> 00:14:48,240
theories but doing so and facing the

392
00:14:52,550 --> 00:14:49,839
conspiracy theorists

393
00:14:53,670 --> 00:14:52,560
rarely make them change their minds and

394
00:14:55,990 --> 00:14:53,680
we've noticed that

395
00:14:57,990 --> 00:14:56,000
the conspiracy theorists are very

396
00:15:00,550 --> 00:14:58,000
strongly attached to the notion of

397
00:15:02,949 --> 00:15:00,560
evidence and reason the theories are

398
00:15:03,430 --> 00:15:02,959
presented as a comprehensive and logical

399
00:15:05,670 --> 00:15:03,440
story

400
00:15:08,550 --> 00:15:05,680
right so perhaps if we can get the

401
00:15:11,590 --> 00:15:08,560
conspiracy theorists to realize just how

402
00:15:11,990 --> 00:15:11,600
wacky and unreasonable their theories

403
00:15:14,470 --> 00:15:12,000
really

404
00:15:15,829 --> 00:15:14,480
are then we can get them to think about

405
00:15:17,829 --> 00:15:15,839
what they're saying

406
00:15:19,590 --> 00:15:17,839
especially if we compare the various

407
00:15:20,230 --> 00:15:19,600
theories and see if they contradict each

408
00:15:21,670 --> 00:15:20,240
other

409
00:15:24,470 --> 00:15:21,680
and that's something that they very

410
00:15:26,710 --> 00:15:24,480
often do right of course

411
00:15:27,910 --> 00:15:26,720
we can't convince all that many

412
00:15:30,389 --> 00:15:27,920
conspiracy theories

413
00:15:31,990 --> 00:15:30,399
just with evidence we know that by now

414
00:15:34,710 --> 00:15:32,000
but if we can make them think

415
00:15:36,150 --> 00:15:34,720
just think perhaps they can convince

416
00:15:38,069 --> 00:15:36,160
themselves that they are wrong

417
00:15:39,430 --> 00:15:38,079
by applying their own standards to their

418
00:15:42,629 --> 00:15:39,440
own reasoning

419
00:15:44,389 --> 00:15:42,639
well yes it's worth a shot i suppose

420
00:15:45,990 --> 00:15:44,399
what what are some of the conspiracy

421
00:15:46,629 --> 00:15:46,000
theories in particular that you've come

422
00:15:49,030 --> 00:15:46,639
across

423
00:15:51,110 --> 00:15:49,040
an early one was that the virus is

424
00:15:52,389 --> 00:15:51,120
engineered as a biological weapon and

425
00:15:54,550 --> 00:15:52,399
escaped from or

426
00:15:56,550 --> 00:15:54,560
was deliberately released from a secret

427
00:15:58,389 --> 00:15:56,560
lab in wuhan china

428
00:16:00,230 --> 00:15:58,399
yeah i've heard that one that one's very

429
00:16:01,910 --> 00:16:00,240
popular i've heard that uh some of my

430
00:16:03,350 --> 00:16:01,920
friends have even told me that they

431
00:16:05,590 --> 00:16:03,360
think that is the case why why do you

432
00:16:08,710 --> 00:16:05,600
think people are so

433
00:16:11,749 --> 00:16:08,720
so wrapped up in that one

434
00:16:14,389 --> 00:16:11,759
two words yellow peril

435
00:16:16,150 --> 00:16:14,399
conspiracies are often openly racist

436
00:16:18,310 --> 00:16:16,160
people believe that type of theory

437
00:16:20,470 --> 00:16:18,320
simply because racism still plays a

438
00:16:23,509 --> 00:16:20,480
large role in most societies

439
00:16:26,790 --> 00:16:23,519
trump's incessant china joiner china

440
00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:26,800
that's the best known example it is

441
00:16:30,629 --> 00:16:29,440
it is i'm not going to do a trump

442
00:16:32,710 --> 00:16:30,639
impersonation

443
00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:32,720
but it reminds me it reminds me of

444
00:16:35,269 --> 00:16:33,920
something that we say here in the

445
00:16:37,110 --> 00:16:35,279
australian skeptics who've said it for a

446
00:16:39,110 --> 00:16:37,120
long time we say well let's play the

447
00:16:41,110 --> 00:16:39,120
game what if it was true

448
00:16:42,629 --> 00:16:41,120
and in this case what if that particular

449
00:16:44,629 --> 00:16:42,639
theory was true what do you think the

450
00:16:47,829 --> 00:16:44,639
consequences would be

451
00:16:49,350 --> 00:16:47,839
dire because china would be really

452
00:16:50,150 --> 00:16:49,360
careless with their weapons of mass

453
00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:50,160
destruction

454
00:16:53,189 --> 00:16:52,480
they would unleash kovit 19 on its own

455
00:16:55,910 --> 00:16:53,199
population

456
00:16:58,470 --> 00:16:55,920
first that's not a good thing and of

457
00:17:00,270 --> 00:16:58,480
course they can't even keep it secret

458
00:17:02,310 --> 00:17:00,280
yay good work communist party

459
00:17:05,750 --> 00:17:02,320
[Laughter]

460
00:17:07,750 --> 00:17:05,760
and if it were true why doesn't the west

461
00:17:10,470 --> 00:17:07,760
perpetuate this

462
00:17:11,990 --> 00:17:10,480
uh conspiracy theory china is rapidly

463
00:17:13,750 --> 00:17:12,000
becoming a threat to the west

464
00:17:15,189 --> 00:17:13,760
not just military-wise but also

465
00:17:18,309 --> 00:17:15,199
business-wise it would make

466
00:17:21,510 --> 00:17:18,319
sense for western experts

467
00:17:24,069 --> 00:17:21,520
to perpetuate this theory normally don't

468
00:17:26,470 --> 00:17:24,079
right okay yeah that's an interesting

469
00:17:29,029 --> 00:17:26,480
one anymore that you have

470
00:17:30,549 --> 00:17:29,039
well of course there's also the story

471
00:17:32,950 --> 00:17:30,559
the usual story

472
00:17:34,310 --> 00:17:32,960
that the virus is being engineered by

473
00:17:36,150 --> 00:17:34,320
jews

474
00:17:37,430 --> 00:17:36,160
and why do people believe that one

475
00:17:39,669 --> 00:17:37,440
that's in one word

476
00:17:41,750 --> 00:17:39,679
anti-semitism yeah you don't have to

477
00:17:43,270 --> 00:17:41,760
learn about conspiracies for more than a

478
00:17:46,549 --> 00:17:43,280
few minutes before you meet

479
00:17:49,669 --> 00:17:46,559
the evil jews they are just everywhere

480
00:17:51,510 --> 00:17:49,679
and according to this theory uh israel

481
00:17:54,390 --> 00:17:51,520
is really behind the pandemic because an

482
00:17:57,029 --> 00:17:54,400
israeli company is working on a vaccine

483
00:17:59,029 --> 00:17:57,039
which will make jews look good so it

484
00:18:02,470 --> 00:17:59,039
must be an evil plot

485
00:18:04,310 --> 00:18:02,480
oh no oh boy no matter how many times

486
00:18:05,350 --> 00:18:04,320
you hear these crazy conspiracy theories

487
00:18:07,750 --> 00:18:05,360
there's one more just

488
00:18:09,430 --> 00:18:07,760
just as crazy well let's play the same

489
00:18:11,510 --> 00:18:09,440
game now what do you think what if that

490
00:18:14,230 --> 00:18:11,520
one was true

491
00:18:15,029 --> 00:18:14,240
well um israel is up against many other

492
00:18:17,190 --> 00:18:15,039
countries

493
00:18:19,510 --> 00:18:17,200
uh which are also working on their own

494
00:18:21,190 --> 00:18:19,520
vaccines denmark is close to having its

495
00:18:23,110 --> 00:18:21,200
own vaccine now

496
00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:23,120
and we see them pop up just about

497
00:18:25,909 --> 00:18:25,440
everywhere the united states is pretty

498
00:18:29,669 --> 00:18:25,919
close

499
00:18:31,830 --> 00:18:29,679
to uh rolling out a vaccine

500
00:18:32,710 --> 00:18:31,840
so why would the jews instigate a

501
00:18:34,630 --> 00:18:32,720
pandemic

502
00:18:35,830 --> 00:18:34,640
only to have their plan of being the

503
00:18:38,549 --> 00:18:35,840
world's heroic

504
00:18:39,830 --> 00:18:38,559
rescuers foiled by many other countries

505
00:18:42,870 --> 00:18:39,840
beating them to it

506
00:18:45,270 --> 00:18:42,880
i mean that's just dumb

507
00:18:47,270 --> 00:18:45,280
yeah yeah it certainly is it certainly

508
00:18:47,750 --> 00:18:47,280
isn't and one i've heard and and you've

509
00:18:50,870 --> 00:18:47,760
probably

510
00:18:53,190 --> 00:18:50,880
come across this one too is our

511
00:18:55,029 --> 00:18:53,200
uh our dear friend well i don't mean

512
00:18:57,750 --> 00:18:55,039
that personally of course

513
00:18:59,510 --> 00:18:57,760
bill gates who does so much good work to

514
00:19:02,070 --> 00:18:59,520
try and help humanity

515
00:19:03,590 --> 00:19:02,080
i believe he's the focus of conspiracy

516
00:19:06,630 --> 00:19:03,600
theories too

517
00:19:07,110 --> 00:19:06,640
yeah according to uh by the way he's not

518
00:19:13,590 --> 00:19:07,120
called

519
00:19:15,830 --> 00:19:13,600
he plans a genocide by forcing vaccines

520
00:19:18,150 --> 00:19:15,840
on everyone

521
00:19:19,830 --> 00:19:18,160
and this is interesting because

522
00:19:22,470 --> 00:19:19,840
antivirus as you are

523
00:19:23,350 --> 00:19:22,480
very familiar with down under and

524
00:19:28,150 --> 00:19:23,360
conspiracy

525
00:19:30,310 --> 00:19:28,160
join forces

526
00:19:31,270 --> 00:19:30,320
it plays into the fear of science of

527
00:19:33,430 --> 00:19:31,280
mind control

528
00:19:35,190 --> 00:19:33,440
in favor of this naturalistic fallacy

529
00:19:38,230 --> 00:19:35,200
that everything in nature is good

530
00:19:41,350 --> 00:19:38,240
everything man-made is bad and of course

531
00:19:43,830 --> 00:19:41,360
so-called alternative medicine so

532
00:19:44,549 --> 00:19:43,840
it's an interesting conspiracy theory

533
00:19:47,909 --> 00:19:44,559
because

534
00:19:49,909 --> 00:19:47,919
here you have two groups joining forces

535
00:19:51,270 --> 00:19:49,919
yeah yeah it's it's absolutely it's

536
00:19:54,150 --> 00:19:51,280
absolutely bizarre

537
00:19:56,230 --> 00:19:54,160
and i mean what benefit could that

538
00:19:59,029 --> 00:19:56,240
possibly be to bill gates what what okay

539
00:20:01,830 --> 00:19:59,039
what if that were true what do you think

540
00:20:04,710 --> 00:20:01,840
well as history has taught us if you

541
00:20:07,669 --> 00:20:04,720
want to plan and carry out a genocide

542
00:20:09,669 --> 00:20:07,679
don't do it in broad daylight i mean if

543
00:20:12,470 --> 00:20:09,679
vaccinations were forced

544
00:20:14,789 --> 00:20:12,480
and resulted in mass deaths it would be

545
00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:14,799
painfully obvious what was behind it

546
00:20:18,630 --> 00:20:17,760
bill gates and his vaccines yes it would

547
00:20:20,710 --> 00:20:18,640
cost perhaps

548
00:20:23,029 --> 00:20:20,720
hundreds of thousands of deaths before

549
00:20:25,990 --> 00:20:23,039
it was revealed or

550
00:20:27,430 --> 00:20:26,000
people realized it but the public outcry

551
00:20:29,110 --> 00:20:27,440
would be enormous

552
00:20:30,950 --> 00:20:29,120
and it would stop the vaccinations

553
00:20:33,909 --> 00:20:30,960
before the deaths reached

554
00:20:35,590 --> 00:20:33,919
millions and it would also mean that

555
00:20:36,710 --> 00:20:35,600
bill gates would be surpassing even

556
00:20:38,630 --> 00:20:36,720
adolf hitler

557
00:20:39,830 --> 00:20:38,640
in being the most reviled person in the

558
00:20:42,470 --> 00:20:39,840
world history

559
00:20:43,350 --> 00:20:42,480
you couldn't keep it secret yeah yeah so

560
00:20:44,870 --> 00:20:43,360
why do it

561
00:20:47,029 --> 00:20:44,880
yeah you make you make an excellent

562
00:20:47,990 --> 00:20:47,039
point and bill gates if you're listening

563
00:20:50,470 --> 00:20:48,000
uh we're sorry

564
00:20:51,830 --> 00:20:50,480
that all this nonsense has been uh

565
00:20:54,710 --> 00:20:51,840
heading your way

566
00:20:55,190 --> 00:20:54,720
now there's another one and i i consider

567
00:20:58,630 --> 00:20:55,200
this

568
00:21:00,070 --> 00:20:58,640
probably the most far-fetched one i've

569
00:21:03,669 --> 00:21:00,080
ever heard certainly

570
00:21:07,110 --> 00:21:03,679
which is of course 5g mobile

571
00:21:10,710 --> 00:21:07,120
phone towers are spreading covet 19.

572
00:21:13,350 --> 00:21:10,720
it's an interesting here we also see

573
00:21:15,270 --> 00:21:13,360
two groups joining forces anti-cell

574
00:21:16,950 --> 00:21:15,280
phoners and kovit-19 conspiracy

575
00:21:19,669 --> 00:21:16,960
theorists

576
00:21:21,029 --> 00:21:19,679
here we have the fear of technology

577
00:21:22,149 --> 00:21:21,039
together with a fundamental

578
00:21:25,909 --> 00:21:22,159
understanding of

579
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:25,919
very basic scientific concepts because

580
00:21:32,630 --> 00:21:29,520
if why 5g and not 40

581
00:21:34,390 --> 00:21:32,640
3t or 2g indeed those technologies were

582
00:21:34,950 --> 00:21:34,400
also claimed to be harmful to millions

583
00:21:37,270 --> 00:21:34,960
of people

584
00:21:38,390 --> 00:21:37,280
where are the massive deaths from cancer

585
00:21:40,870 --> 00:21:38,400
and how do you even

586
00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:40,880
spread a virus via electromagnetic

587
00:21:45,270 --> 00:21:41,760
radiation

588
00:21:47,510 --> 00:21:45,280
yes and more to the point why would you

589
00:21:49,350 --> 00:21:47,520
i mean it would hit everyone including

590
00:21:49,750 --> 00:21:49,360
the including those behind the devious

591
00:21:52,950 --> 00:21:49,760
plan

592
00:21:56,230 --> 00:21:52,960
yeah yeah i mean and to

593
00:21:57,590 --> 00:21:56,240
further nail it this conspiracy theory

594
00:21:59,909 --> 00:21:57,600
is promoted in part

595
00:22:01,270 --> 00:21:59,919
via cell phone technology and that's a

596
00:22:03,590 --> 00:22:01,280
contradiction right there

597
00:22:04,950 --> 00:22:03,600
the conspiracy theorists may believe the

598
00:22:07,430 --> 00:22:04,960
theory but they don't

599
00:22:08,630 --> 00:22:07,440
act accordingly i love that one they're

600
00:22:10,230 --> 00:22:08,640
all calling themselves

601
00:22:12,310 --> 00:22:10,240
each other up on the on their cell

602
00:22:15,510 --> 00:22:12,320
phones using various uh

603
00:22:15,909 --> 00:22:15,520
g technology you know 4g 3g and probably

604
00:22:19,190 --> 00:22:15,919
now

605
00:22:21,669 --> 00:22:19,200
5g to complain about it and commiserate

606
00:22:24,630 --> 00:22:21,679
with themselves and try to plot

607
00:22:25,430 --> 00:22:24,640
all sorts of things so so class are

608
00:22:27,110 --> 00:22:25,440
there any that

609
00:22:29,990 --> 00:22:27,120
sort of roll on from that weird

610
00:22:34,070 --> 00:22:30,000
conspiracy theory with the 5g

611
00:22:37,590 --> 00:22:34,080
well it's maybe a meta

612
00:22:39,830 --> 00:22:37,600
conspiracy mega corporations global

613
00:22:41,750 --> 00:22:39,840
corporations benefit from businesses

614
00:22:46,630 --> 00:22:41,760
shutting down so they must be behind

615
00:22:49,270 --> 00:22:46,640
it and this is uh this

616
00:22:50,870 --> 00:22:49,280
it's about anti-globalism that runs deep

617
00:22:53,190 --> 00:22:50,880
in conspiracy land

618
00:22:55,669 --> 00:22:53,200
anything global is seen as evil

619
00:23:00,310 --> 00:22:55,679
therefore jeff pieces from amazon.com

620
00:23:03,909 --> 00:23:02,470
we found that there's often a grain of

621
00:23:06,149 --> 00:23:03,919
truth to conspiracy

622
00:23:07,029 --> 00:23:06,159
theories because online businesses have

623
00:23:10,870 --> 00:23:07,039
indeed

624
00:23:13,830 --> 00:23:10,880
sales oh yeah

625
00:23:14,710 --> 00:23:13,840
but starting a pandemic seems like a

626
00:23:17,270 --> 00:23:14,720
rather stupid

627
00:23:18,789 --> 00:23:17,280
way to increase profit since the trend

628
00:23:20,710 --> 00:23:18,799
is going in the direction of online

629
00:23:23,190 --> 00:23:20,720
stores anyway

630
00:23:24,310 --> 00:23:23,200
so why would you risk a sure thing by

631
00:23:25,990 --> 00:23:24,320
launching a pandemic

632
00:23:28,789 --> 00:23:26,000
that would also cost millions of

633
00:23:31,029 --> 00:23:28,799
potential customers they're gonna die

634
00:23:32,149 --> 00:23:31,039
so they can't buy people yeah they can't

635
00:23:33,909 --> 00:23:32,159
buy your stuff

636
00:23:35,350 --> 00:23:33,919
well again you're making a lot of sense

637
00:23:36,549 --> 00:23:35,360
and and

638
00:23:38,470 --> 00:23:36,559
on the flip side of course the

639
00:23:40,630 --> 00:23:38,480
conspiracy theorists and conspiracy

640
00:23:42,950 --> 00:23:40,640
theories in general to me

641
00:23:43,990 --> 00:23:42,960
um don't seem to make a lot of sense

642
00:23:45,909 --> 00:23:44,000
really

643
00:23:49,029 --> 00:23:45,919
yeah but that's because you're thinking

644
00:23:51,990 --> 00:23:49,039
like a skeptic

645
00:23:52,789 --> 00:23:52,000
have found that and this really sounds

646
00:23:54,950 --> 00:23:52,799
uh

647
00:23:56,149 --> 00:23:54,960
insane i'm not i'm not saying that

648
00:24:01,350 --> 00:23:56,159
conspiracy theorists

649
00:24:08,710 --> 00:24:04,950
the more absurd a conspiracy theory

650
00:24:11,510 --> 00:24:08,720
is the easier it is believed by

651
00:24:13,350 --> 00:24:11,520
especially type 2 because if everything

652
00:24:15,590 --> 00:24:13,360
is a conspiracy

653
00:24:18,950 --> 00:24:15,600
well then it makes more and more sense

654
00:24:22,789 --> 00:24:18,960
that's why you have people

655
00:24:23,110 --> 00:24:22,799
where people can go from jfbs is behind

656
00:24:26,230 --> 00:24:23,120
the

657
00:24:29,350 --> 00:24:26,240
covet 19 pandemic to gradually

658
00:24:32,470 --> 00:24:29,360
accept the idea of reptilian

659
00:24:33,269 --> 00:24:32,480
overloads from outer space because the

660
00:24:39,430 --> 00:24:33,279
more

661
00:24:40,310 --> 00:24:39,440
the easier it is to believe once you've

662
00:24:44,390 --> 00:24:40,320
gone down the

663
00:24:47,590 --> 00:24:44,400
shall we say the dark way yeah yeah so

664
00:24:48,390 --> 00:24:47,600
if if we take them one by one conspiracy

665
00:24:49,909 --> 00:24:48,400
theories

666
00:24:51,830 --> 00:24:49,919
they don't they don't pass the sniff

667
00:24:55,269 --> 00:24:51,840
test if they are true

668
00:24:57,590 --> 00:24:55,279
they make no sense at all but uh

669
00:24:59,190 --> 00:24:57,600
it's when we compare the theories to

670
00:25:03,029 --> 00:24:59,200
other theories that they become

671
00:25:05,990 --> 00:25:03,039
truly ridiculous because if either

672
00:25:06,549 --> 00:25:06,000
the chinese government or bill gates are

673
00:25:09,350 --> 00:25:06,559
behind

674
00:25:10,230 --> 00:25:09,360
the pandemic both theories can't be true

675
00:25:12,710 --> 00:25:10,240
so which

676
00:25:13,669 --> 00:25:12,720
theory is false and why right right

677
00:25:16,549 --> 00:25:13,679
think about it

678
00:25:17,669 --> 00:25:16,559
that's what we we say to conspiracy

679
00:25:20,630 --> 00:25:17,679
theorists

680
00:25:21,830 --> 00:25:20,640
why which one is uh false which one is

681
00:25:24,950 --> 00:25:21,840
true

682
00:25:26,789 --> 00:25:24,960
why are they false think about it if

683
00:25:27,990 --> 00:25:26,799
of course on the other hand they are

684
00:25:29,669 --> 00:25:28,000
both true

685
00:25:32,470 --> 00:25:29,679
what about the other ones what about the

686
00:25:35,029 --> 00:25:32,480
other theories if they are all true

687
00:25:35,990 --> 00:25:35,039
why would the and get get ready for this

688
00:25:38,230 --> 00:25:36,000
one

689
00:25:39,590 --> 00:25:38,240
why would the chinese government work

690
00:25:42,149 --> 00:25:39,600
with cell phone companies

691
00:25:44,230 --> 00:25:42,159
deaf pieces from amazon.com bill gates

692
00:25:45,269 --> 00:25:44,240
with his genocidal vaccine and israel

693
00:25:47,590 --> 00:25:45,279
with their vaccine

694
00:25:49,029 --> 00:25:47,600
to kill off millions of customers yes

695
00:25:52,630 --> 00:25:49,039
yes that's right

696
00:25:57,029 --> 00:25:52,640
what that's the if you accept

697
00:25:59,269 --> 00:25:57,039
that as being logical and making sense

698
00:26:01,990 --> 00:25:59,279
the neck you are not that far from

699
00:26:04,870 --> 00:26:02,000
accepting reptilian overlords

700
00:26:07,510 --> 00:26:04,880
so there's a danger to believing once

701
00:26:10,950 --> 00:26:07,520
you believe your first conspiracy theory

702
00:26:12,630 --> 00:26:10,960
it's not going to be your last yeah yep

703
00:26:14,149 --> 00:26:12,640
that makes a lot of sense to me and of

704
00:26:15,750 --> 00:26:14,159
course you you know

705
00:26:17,430 --> 00:26:15,760
full well that you and i are both part

706
00:26:19,590 --> 00:26:17,440
of the conspiracy to keep conspiracy

707
00:26:23,029 --> 00:26:19,600
theories down don't you

708
00:26:25,269 --> 00:26:23,039
oh yes and uh but

709
00:26:27,590 --> 00:26:25,279
i i'm i'm better at it than you because

710
00:26:30,630 --> 00:26:27,600
i actually get paid

711
00:26:33,350 --> 00:26:30,640
i get paid uh you don't

712
00:26:34,470 --> 00:26:33,360
uh we are all when steve and i are uh

713
00:26:36,390 --> 00:26:34,480
giving lectures

714
00:26:38,070 --> 00:26:36,400
we don't give that many lectures

715
00:26:41,430 --> 00:26:38,080
nowadays but

716
00:26:45,190 --> 00:26:41,440
usually when we go to schools and

717
00:26:48,149 --> 00:26:45,200
high schools and even universities we

718
00:26:48,789 --> 00:26:48,159
we get usually get the same question who

719
00:26:51,669 --> 00:26:48,799
pays us

720
00:26:52,230 --> 00:26:51,679
to do this conspiracy theorists they

721
00:26:54,950 --> 00:26:52,240
have a

722
00:26:56,390 --> 00:26:54,960
hard time understanding that this is uh

723
00:26:59,190 --> 00:26:56,400
just a conomor

724
00:26:59,990 --> 00:26:59,200
uh project for us we do sting and i do

725
00:27:02,230 --> 00:27:00,000
this

726
00:27:03,110 --> 00:27:02,240
because we think it's necessary of

727
00:27:06,390 --> 00:27:03,120
course we get

728
00:27:09,510 --> 00:27:06,400
paid when we do lectures but our

729
00:27:12,710 --> 00:27:09,520
far biggest shall we say donation comes

730
00:27:15,510 --> 00:27:12,720
from the conspiracy theorists ourselves

731
00:27:16,950 --> 00:27:15,520
themselves because um i mentioned

732
00:27:19,430 --> 00:27:16,960
earlier that

733
00:27:20,470 --> 00:27:19,440
we've had articles stolen from us yeah

734
00:27:23,269 --> 00:27:20,480
yeah

735
00:27:24,070 --> 00:27:23,279
so we took one of them to court which uh

736
00:27:27,830 --> 00:27:24,080
resulted

737
00:27:30,870 --> 00:27:27,840
in we got about just over fifty thousand

738
00:27:33,750 --> 00:27:30,880
days corner that's about

739
00:27:35,430 --> 00:27:33,760
seven or eight thousand dollars from the

740
00:27:38,470 --> 00:27:35,440
court

741
00:27:41,190 --> 00:27:38,480
so you know yeah

742
00:27:43,990 --> 00:27:41,200
sure we get paid for doing this but we

743
00:27:47,830 --> 00:27:44,000
get paid by the conspiracy theorists

744
00:27:49,110 --> 00:27:47,840
that's funny come on who can say among

745
00:27:52,870 --> 00:27:49,120
the skeptics

746
00:27:55,510 --> 00:27:52,880
the skeptic community communities that

747
00:27:56,389 --> 00:27:55,520
you know you get paid by people who want

748
00:27:58,710 --> 00:27:56,399
to hear

749
00:28:00,549 --> 00:27:58,720
what you have to say we get paid by the

750
00:28:03,190 --> 00:28:00,559
conspiracy theorists

751
00:28:03,990 --> 00:28:03,200
i can't argue with that oh you sound

752
00:28:05,590 --> 00:28:04,000
like you're on

753
00:28:07,590 --> 00:28:05,600
a good deal there if that if that's the

754
00:28:08,549 --> 00:28:07,600
case folks i will link to this website

755
00:28:10,389 --> 00:28:08,559
once again

756
00:28:11,669 --> 00:28:10,399
in this week's show notes it's certainly

757
00:28:15,029 --> 00:28:11,679
worth your uh

758
00:28:16,870 --> 00:28:15,039
visit i've been going there and

759
00:28:18,310 --> 00:28:16,880
perusing the it's very well laid out

760
00:28:19,750 --> 00:28:18,320
klaus i must say it's a really

761
00:28:22,070 --> 00:28:19,760
interesting way you've laid out the

762
00:28:26,310 --> 00:28:22,080
website that's 9 11

763
00:28:28,549 --> 00:28:26,320
facts dot d k d k for denmark of course

764
00:28:29,350 --> 00:28:28,559
well worth your visit and clas i worked

765
00:28:31,830 --> 00:28:29,360
out that we

766
00:28:32,789 --> 00:28:31,840
have indeed met each other and it was at

767
00:28:36,549 --> 00:28:32,799
tam

768
00:28:41,110 --> 00:28:36,559
number six

769
00:28:43,990 --> 00:28:41,120
in 2008 how about that

770
00:28:46,149 --> 00:28:44,000
oh boy that's 12 years ago i know now

771
00:28:47,669 --> 00:28:46,159
that's a conspiracy in itself i think

772
00:28:49,350 --> 00:28:47,679
well it's the only thing i don't like

773
00:28:53,110 --> 00:28:49,360
about getting older

774
00:28:57,190 --> 00:28:53,120
time seemed to pass quicker and quicker

775
00:28:58,630 --> 00:28:57,200
a month is just wait i mean it was just

776
00:29:00,630 --> 00:28:58,640
where where are we now well we are in

777
00:29:03,990 --> 00:29:00,640
november what happened it was just

778
00:29:05,909 --> 00:29:04,000
east yesterday so

779
00:29:07,590 --> 00:29:05,919
that i don't like otherwise it's okay

780
00:29:10,149 --> 00:29:07,600
although otherwise it's okay but

781
00:29:12,070 --> 00:29:10,159
i will say about this year 2020 with the

782
00:29:14,870 --> 00:29:12,080
pandemic it has been

783
00:29:15,909 --> 00:29:14,880
in some respects the longest year i can

784
00:29:19,190 --> 00:29:15,919
remember

785
00:29:21,350 --> 00:29:19,200
and one of the shortest it's just

786
00:29:23,430 --> 00:29:21,360
and that's a conspiracy all in itself

787
00:29:25,029 --> 00:29:23,440
well klaus larsen thank you so much for

788
00:29:26,070 --> 00:29:25,039
spending some time here on the skeptic

789
00:29:29,029 --> 00:29:26,080
own come back again

790
00:29:31,029 --> 00:29:29,039
soon uh you're always welcome to to

791
00:29:31,909 --> 00:29:31,039
appear on the show and i might even get

792
00:29:33,269 --> 00:29:31,919
you

793
00:29:35,110 --> 00:29:33,279
in the next little while to make a

794
00:29:35,909 --> 00:29:35,120
little promo i can run regularly on the

795
00:29:37,830 --> 00:29:35,919
show to

796
00:29:40,310 --> 00:29:37,840
get more people to visit your site but

797
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:40,320
for now klaus larsen thank you very much

798
00:30:06,830 --> 00:29:54,330
thank you

799
00:30:11,330 --> 00:30:09,750
do

800
00:30:14,870 --> 00:30:11,340
logical fallacies

801
00:30:17,669 --> 00:30:14,880
[Music]

802
00:30:19,510 --> 00:30:17,679
what are logical fallacies and why is it

803
00:30:22,149 --> 00:30:19,520
important that critical thinkers should

804
00:30:24,470 --> 00:30:22,159
know about them

805
00:30:26,070 --> 00:30:24,480
a logical fallacy is an error we can

806
00:30:28,070 --> 00:30:26,080
make in reasoning

807
00:30:32,470 --> 00:30:28,080
but it usually crops up when we are

808
00:30:36,870 --> 00:30:34,549
some people might even knowingly use

809
00:30:37,750 --> 00:30:36,880
them to try and score cheap points in an

810
00:30:41,029 --> 00:30:37,760
argument

811
00:30:43,590 --> 00:30:41,039
due to intellectual laziness

812
00:30:45,350 --> 00:30:43,600
they are traps we can fall into but if

813
00:30:47,510 --> 00:30:45,360
we know what to look out for

814
00:30:51,060 --> 00:30:47,520
we can spot them when they occur and

815
00:30:52,870 --> 00:30:51,070
stop ourselves from using them

816
00:30:55,350 --> 00:30:52,880
[Music]

817
00:30:57,029 --> 00:30:55,360
this time we'll look at appeal to the

818
00:30:59,830 --> 00:30:57,039
stone

819
00:31:01,430 --> 00:30:59,840
this is when you dismiss an idea or

820
00:31:04,389 --> 00:31:01,440
statement as absurd

821
00:31:06,230 --> 00:31:04,399
invalid or incorrect without giving a

822
00:31:10,070 --> 00:31:06,240
satisfactory reason

823
00:31:11,830 --> 00:31:10,080
as to why many armchair skeptics can be

824
00:31:15,350 --> 00:31:11,840
guilty of this fallacy

825
00:31:18,630 --> 00:31:15,360
as it is all too easy to reject an idea

826
00:31:21,269 --> 00:31:18,640
without really understanding the topic

827
00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:21,279
but then again those who believe in

828
00:31:25,830 --> 00:31:23,440
talking to the dead for example

829
00:31:26,590 --> 00:31:25,840
can be too quick to write off more

830
00:31:29,990 --> 00:31:26,600
mundane

831
00:31:30,230 --> 00:31:30,000
explanations of course i don't believe

832
00:31:33,669 --> 00:31:30,240
in

833
00:31:35,909 --> 00:31:33,679
sources

834
00:31:37,269 --> 00:31:35,919
i don't know much about space travel but

835
00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:37,279
the whole idea is

836
00:31:42,950 --> 00:31:40,320
just ridiculous so far

837
00:31:45,990 --> 00:31:42,960
there is no good evidence to suggest

838
00:31:49,029 --> 00:31:46,000
aliens or robotic ships have visited the

839
00:31:51,430 --> 00:31:49,039
earth from other planets however

840
00:31:53,990 --> 00:31:51,440
it would be naive to write the whole

841
00:31:57,669 --> 00:31:54,000
idea of as being ridiculous

842
00:32:01,509 --> 00:31:57,679
without some understanding of the topic

843
00:32:03,630 --> 00:32:01,519
as carl sagan said for all i know

844
00:32:06,149 --> 00:32:03,640
we may be visited by a different

845
00:32:09,110 --> 00:32:06,159
extraterrestrial civilization

846
00:32:11,750 --> 00:32:09,120
every second tuesday but there's no

847
00:32:14,230 --> 00:32:11,760
support for this appealing idea

848
00:32:15,509 --> 00:32:14,240
i hear that thousands of scientists have

849
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:15,519
signed a paper

850
00:32:19,029 --> 00:32:18,000
calling for action on climate change but

851
00:32:22,070 --> 00:32:19,039
i don't care

852
00:32:24,310 --> 00:32:22,080
climate change is just made up and silly

853
00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:24,320
not understanding a topic like climate

854
00:32:29,350 --> 00:32:26,159
change and calling it silly

855
00:32:31,669 --> 00:32:29,360
is a very poor way of reasoning we owe

856
00:32:34,630 --> 00:32:31,679
it to ourselves to do at least

857
00:32:35,990 --> 00:32:34,640
some research on a topic before taking a

858
00:32:39,110 --> 00:32:36,000
strong stand

859
00:32:41,909 --> 00:32:39,120
one way or the other the earth is

860
00:32:42,870 --> 00:32:41,919
flat i tell you i mean just look at the

861
00:32:45,509 --> 00:32:42,880
horizon

862
00:32:46,310 --> 00:32:45,519
it's flat the idea that the earth is

863
00:32:49,269 --> 00:32:46,320
round is

864
00:32:50,470 --> 00:32:49,279
absurd it's funny to think that once

865
00:32:52,870 --> 00:32:50,480
upon a time

866
00:32:54,549 --> 00:32:52,880
thousands of years ago people thought

867
00:32:57,029 --> 00:32:54,559
the same thing

868
00:32:57,830 --> 00:32:57,039
we can forgive those ancient people as

869
00:33:00,950 --> 00:32:57,840
they didn't

870
00:33:04,230 --> 00:33:00,960
know better but for the last

871
00:33:07,509 --> 00:33:04,240
2 000 years it has been widely accepted

872
00:33:10,470 --> 00:33:07,519
and understood that we live on a globe

873
00:33:14,230 --> 00:33:10,480
no matter how absurd some people think

874
00:33:19,430 --> 00:33:16,710
even if you think an idea or claim is

875
00:33:21,750 --> 00:33:19,440
just too silly for you to entertain

876
00:33:23,029 --> 00:33:21,760
it is worth the time to come to an

877
00:33:26,070 --> 00:33:23,039
understanding as to

878
00:33:27,990 --> 00:33:26,080
why you made that determination

879
00:33:29,909 --> 00:33:28,000
does the claim violate the laws of

880
00:33:34,149 --> 00:33:29,919
physics for example

881
00:33:36,310 --> 00:33:34,159
if so which laws and why

882
00:33:38,070 --> 00:33:36,320
what other reasons do you have to reject

883
00:33:40,070 --> 00:33:38,080
the claim

884
00:33:42,549 --> 00:33:40,080
then at least you'll have a better

885
00:33:44,870 --> 00:33:42,559
answer than simply calling it silly or

886
00:33:47,830 --> 00:33:44,880
ridiculous

887
00:33:49,909 --> 00:33:47,840
[Music]

888
00:33:50,870 --> 00:33:49,919
knowing a logical fallacy when you hear

889
00:33:53,590 --> 00:33:50,880
one and

890
00:33:56,149 --> 00:33:53,600
even knowing its name is important when

891
00:33:59,509 --> 00:33:56,159
arguing your point of view

892
00:34:01,990 --> 00:33:59,519
however you may come across as arrogant

893
00:34:02,710 --> 00:34:02,000
and not get very far if you call it out

894
00:34:05,110 --> 00:34:02,720
by name

895
00:34:07,190 --> 00:34:05,120
to your opponent when you hear it being

896
00:34:09,669 --> 00:34:07,200
used

897
00:34:10,550 --> 00:34:09,679
if your opponent calls you out for using

898
00:34:12,790 --> 00:34:10,560
one

899
00:34:15,829 --> 00:34:12,800
it's time to stop and think about how

900
00:34:17,909 --> 00:34:15,839
you are making your case

901
00:34:19,109 --> 00:34:17,919
use your knowledge of logical fallacies

902
00:34:21,909 --> 00:34:19,119
wisely

903
00:34:23,109 --> 00:34:21,919
and remember that even if your point of

904
00:34:25,430 --> 00:34:23,119
view is right

905
00:34:26,790 --> 00:34:25,440
and you know all the pitfalls in arguing

906
00:34:29,270 --> 00:34:26,800
your case

907
00:34:30,389 --> 00:34:29,280
it doesn't always mean you'll win on the

908
00:34:33,669 --> 00:34:30,399
day

909
00:34:36,270 --> 00:34:33,679
and as skeptics we must also remember

910
00:34:39,270 --> 00:34:36,280
that we too can be wrong at times

911
00:34:41,109 --> 00:34:39,280
[Music]

912
00:34:52,479 --> 00:34:41,119
i'm michelle bickersma from the vic

913
00:34:52,489 --> 00:35:07,750
[Music]

914
00:35:11,510 --> 00:35:09,750
now it's time once again to dive into

915
00:35:13,510 --> 00:35:11,520
the treasure trove

916
00:35:17,030 --> 00:35:13,520
the information treasure trove that is

917
00:35:18,870 --> 00:35:17,040
trove at trove.nla.gov

918
00:35:21,510 --> 00:35:18,880
an online resource of magazines

919
00:35:24,950 --> 00:35:21,520
periodicals reports

920
00:35:26,550 --> 00:35:24,960
newspapers flyers gazettes that sort of

921
00:35:28,150 --> 00:35:26,560
thing

922
00:35:30,069 --> 00:35:28,160
now over the past few months we've been

923
00:35:32,310 --> 00:35:30,079
looking at classic skepticism like loch

924
00:35:35,349 --> 00:35:32,320
ness monster or yowie's

925
00:35:37,430 --> 00:35:35,359
ufos esp clairvoyance that sort of thing

926
00:35:39,670 --> 00:35:37,440
so today i thought we'd look at

927
00:35:41,270 --> 00:35:39,680
skepticism itself or in this case

928
00:35:42,790 --> 00:35:41,280
australian skeptics now australian

929
00:35:46,069 --> 00:35:42,800
skeptics have been

930
00:35:48,390 --> 00:35:46,079
around since 1981

931
00:35:51,589 --> 00:35:48,400
which means uh early next year it'll be

932
00:35:53,670 --> 00:35:51,599
the 40th anniversary of the organization

933
00:35:55,589 --> 00:35:53,680
who knows we might have a celebratory

934
00:35:58,230 --> 00:35:55,599
cup of tea or something

935
00:36:00,230 --> 00:35:58,240
anyway i've typed into the search engine

936
00:36:03,510 --> 00:36:00,240
here at trove

937
00:36:06,310 --> 00:36:03,520
australian skeptics and there are

938
00:36:06,950 --> 00:36:06,320
a surprising amount of returns most of

939
00:36:10,310 --> 00:36:06,960
them

940
00:36:12,870 --> 00:36:10,320
from the canberra times because i think

941
00:36:14,390 --> 00:36:12,880
a lot of what you find in this trove is

942
00:36:15,750 --> 00:36:14,400
from the canberra timers but that's all

943
00:36:17,990 --> 00:36:15,760
right

944
00:36:19,829 --> 00:36:18,000
and the first one we come across and

945
00:36:22,230 --> 00:36:19,839
i'll read a selection of them

946
00:36:24,829 --> 00:36:22,240
comes from the canberra times monday

947
00:36:27,140 --> 00:36:24,839
january the 6th

948
00:36:30,710 --> 00:36:27,150
1986

949
00:36:37,510 --> 00:36:34,589
with the headline creationists grants

950
00:36:39,190 --> 00:36:37,520
unconstitutional the australian skeptics

951
00:36:41,589 --> 00:36:39,200
believe the government may have

952
00:36:43,750 --> 00:36:41,599
breached the constitution by giving

953
00:36:45,910 --> 00:36:43,760
export development grants totaling

954
00:36:48,020 --> 00:36:45,920
at least twenty seven thousand dollars

955
00:36:49,589 --> 00:36:48,030
to two creationist organizations

956
00:36:51,829 --> 00:36:49,599
[Music]

957
00:36:53,750 --> 00:36:51,839
national president of the australian

958
00:36:56,390 --> 00:36:53,760
skeptics mr mark plummer

959
00:36:58,790 --> 00:36:56,400
and as an aside mark plummer is regarded

960
00:37:03,510 --> 00:36:58,800
as the founder of australian skeptics

961
00:37:05,109 --> 00:37:03,520
and he died sadly in about 2011.

962
00:37:06,790 --> 00:37:05,119
anyway mr mark plummer said from

963
00:37:09,109 --> 00:37:06,800
melbourne yesterday that

964
00:37:10,390 --> 00:37:09,119
section 116 of the federal constitution

965
00:37:13,349 --> 00:37:10,400
prevented the government

966
00:37:15,349 --> 00:37:13,359
from establishing a religion we find it

967
00:37:17,589 --> 00:37:15,359
rather amazing that the board

968
00:37:18,710 --> 00:37:17,599
the export development grants board have

969
00:37:21,109 --> 00:37:18,720
made grants to

970
00:37:23,190 --> 00:37:21,119
religious organizations and we want to

971
00:37:24,150 --> 00:37:23,200
know under what pretext they got the

972
00:37:26,950 --> 00:37:24,160
money

973
00:37:28,390 --> 00:37:26,960
he said the skeptics had made a freedom

974
00:37:30,950 --> 00:37:28,400
of information request

975
00:37:32,790 --> 00:37:30,960
to the attorney general's department to

976
00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:32,800
find out if checks had been made to

977
00:37:36,550 --> 00:37:34,240
ensure that the grants

978
00:37:37,670 --> 00:37:36,560
had not been inconsistent with the

979
00:37:39,990 --> 00:37:37,680
section

980
00:37:42,230 --> 00:37:40,000
mr plummer said there had only been four

981
00:37:45,270 --> 00:37:42,240
legal cases brought under this section

982
00:37:47,349 --> 00:37:45,280
since federation and uh and again

983
00:37:51,589 --> 00:37:47,359
another aside federation

984
00:37:53,510 --> 00:37:51,599
occurred in 1901 but the section

985
00:37:55,750 --> 00:37:53,520
was based on the united states first

986
00:37:59,349 --> 00:37:55,760
amendment and there had been

987
00:38:01,190 --> 00:37:59,359
a preponderance of u.s court cases

988
00:38:02,870 --> 00:38:01,200
which had gone against the state-making

989
00:38:05,190 --> 00:38:02,880
grants to religious groups

990
00:38:05,910 --> 00:38:05,200
the grants were detailed in an 80-page

991
00:38:08,150 --> 00:38:05,920
booklet

992
00:38:08,950 --> 00:38:08,160
launched by the skeptics in sydney on

993
00:38:12,069 --> 00:38:08,960
friday

994
00:38:15,270 --> 00:38:12,079
challenging creationist beliefs it's

995
00:38:17,750 --> 00:38:15,280
said a balance sheet of the creationist

996
00:38:19,470 --> 00:38:17,760
science foundation limited for the year

997
00:38:22,870 --> 00:38:19,480
ending 31st of march

998
00:38:27,829 --> 00:38:22,880
1985 listed as credit and export

999
00:38:29,829 --> 00:38:27,839
market development grant of 24 693

1000
00:38:32,150 --> 00:38:29,839
the booklet edited by queensland

1001
00:38:34,950 --> 00:38:32,160
scientists dr martin bridgstock and

1002
00:38:36,630 --> 00:38:34,960
dr ken smith said the brisbane-based

1003
00:38:39,829 --> 00:38:36,640
foundation had grown rapidly

1004
00:38:42,710 --> 00:38:39,839
into an organization with a 500 000

1005
00:38:43,670 --> 00:38:42,720
turnover a well-produced magazine

1006
00:38:47,030 --> 00:38:43,680
newspaper

1007
00:38:49,270 --> 00:38:47,040
and 14 full-time staff mr plummer said

1008
00:38:50,510 --> 00:38:49,280
the skeptic's claim was supported by the

1009
00:38:53,670 --> 00:38:50,520
board's

1010
00:38:55,270 --> 00:38:53,680
1984-85 annual report which listed a

1011
00:38:56,470 --> 00:38:55,280
payment to the creation scientist

1012
00:38:58,230 --> 00:38:56,480
foundation limited

1013
00:39:00,390 --> 00:38:58,240
of twelve thousand four hundred and

1014
00:39:01,670 --> 00:39:00,400
forty dollars and to the creation

1015
00:39:06,630 --> 00:39:01,680
science association

1016
00:39:09,349 --> 00:39:06,640
inc of 3177

1017
00:39:11,270 --> 00:39:09,359
the society has also made a freedom of

1018
00:39:12,310 --> 00:39:11,280
information request to the department of

1019
00:39:14,310 --> 00:39:12,320
trade

1020
00:39:16,550 --> 00:39:14,320
but the department had refused the

1021
00:39:18,790 --> 00:39:16,560
request on the grounds that it could

1022
00:39:20,150 --> 00:39:18,800
not reveal information about the

1023
00:39:22,230 --> 00:39:20,160
applicant's affairs

1024
00:39:23,910 --> 00:39:22,240
mr plummer said the creationists were

1025
00:39:25,510 --> 00:39:23,920
holding a conference at the

1026
00:39:27,910 --> 00:39:25,520
university of new south wales from

1027
00:39:29,990 --> 00:39:27,920
tomorrow the skeptics had challenged the

1028
00:39:31,190 --> 00:39:30,000
creationists to reveal the details of

1029
00:39:33,349 --> 00:39:31,200
export grants

1030
00:39:34,470 --> 00:39:33,359
and had challenged two visiting us

1031
00:39:37,910 --> 00:39:34,480
creationists

1032
00:39:39,510 --> 00:39:37,920
to a debate and this really does hark

1033
00:39:40,630 --> 00:39:39,520
back to the early days of australian

1034
00:39:43,349 --> 00:39:40,640
skeptics

1035
00:39:44,150 --> 00:39:43,359
where a lot of what they were concerned

1036
00:39:47,109 --> 00:39:44,160
about

1037
00:39:49,030 --> 00:39:47,119
was the teaching of creationism in the

1038
00:39:50,630 --> 00:39:49,040
school system here especially in the

1039
00:39:52,150 --> 00:39:50,640
state of queensland

1040
00:39:54,069 --> 00:39:52,160
and as we've seen over the decades

1041
00:39:55,270 --> 00:39:54,079
although the battle isn't won the war

1042
00:39:56,870 --> 00:39:55,280
isn't one

1043
00:39:58,870 --> 00:39:56,880
the other side has been more or less

1044
00:40:00,710 --> 00:39:58,880
decimated and

1045
00:40:02,630 --> 00:40:00,720
there are pockets of creationism still

1046
00:40:05,030 --> 00:40:02,640
about there always will be

1047
00:40:06,069 --> 00:40:05,040
but they are uh not what they used to be

1048
00:40:09,190 --> 00:40:06,079
in the past

1049
00:40:11,829 --> 00:40:09,200
our next search brings us to

1050
00:40:12,390 --> 00:40:11,839
the canberra times once again published

1051
00:40:15,510 --> 00:40:12,400
on

1052
00:40:17,030 --> 00:40:15,520
saturday the 18th of april 1987 so the

1053
00:40:20,069 --> 00:40:17,040
next year

1054
00:40:24,069 --> 00:40:20,079
skeptical people to meet at anu

1055
00:40:24,790 --> 00:40:24,079
by ian warden you may be reluctant to

1056
00:40:27,109 --> 00:40:24,800
believe it

1057
00:40:28,870 --> 00:40:27,119
but the australian skeptic's third

1058
00:40:31,510 --> 00:40:28,880
national conference will be held at the

1059
00:40:34,069 --> 00:40:31,520
australian national university today

1060
00:40:35,349 --> 00:40:34,079
speakers will speak on and generally

1061
00:40:38,550 --> 00:40:35,359
scoff about

1062
00:40:40,550 --> 00:40:38,560
such subjects as taro and the occult

1063
00:40:41,829 --> 00:40:40,560
creationism the prophecies of

1064
00:40:44,069 --> 00:40:41,839
nostradamus

1065
00:40:47,030 --> 00:40:44,079
and astrology although the speakers

1066
00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:47,040
scheduled to speak on ufos in australia

1067
00:40:51,990 --> 00:40:50,160
mr andrew cole says that he has an open

1068
00:40:52,870 --> 00:40:52,000
mind on the seven or eight percent of

1069
00:40:55,030 --> 00:40:52,880
sightings which

1070
00:40:56,230 --> 00:40:55,040
cannot be explained away as sightings of

1071
00:40:59,109 --> 00:40:56,240
venus or jupiter

1072
00:41:00,710 --> 00:40:59,119
or of anset's 8 15 pm flight from suny

1073
00:41:03,190 --> 00:41:00,720
to melbourne

1074
00:41:05,349 --> 00:41:03,200
in conjunction with the conference there

1075
00:41:08,069 --> 00:41:05,359
will be the announcement of the bent

1076
00:41:09,990 --> 00:41:08,079
spoon award for 1987 which will be

1077
00:41:12,150 --> 00:41:10,000
awarded to what the secretary of the

1078
00:41:13,589 --> 00:41:12,160
canberra skeptics mr william gray

1079
00:41:15,270 --> 00:41:13,599
calls the perpetrator of the most

1080
00:41:16,950 --> 00:41:15,280
outrageous paranormal act of the

1081
00:41:18,950 --> 00:41:16,960
preceding 12 months

1082
00:41:20,670 --> 00:41:18,960
the reference to the ben spoon is a

1083
00:41:22,950 --> 00:41:20,680
reference to the works of the

1084
00:41:25,670 --> 00:41:22,960
spoon-bending charlatan

1085
00:41:26,470 --> 00:41:25,680
yuri gela a favorite target for the

1086
00:41:28,870 --> 00:41:26,480
scoffing

1087
00:41:30,630 --> 00:41:28,880
of the skeptics who insists that he is

1088
00:41:31,670 --> 00:41:30,640
not a psychic but only a naughty

1089
00:41:33,510 --> 00:41:31,680
magician

1090
00:41:34,710 --> 00:41:33,520
when i put it to mr gray that it might

1091
00:41:36,790 --> 00:41:34,720
make for a rather

1092
00:41:38,150 --> 00:41:36,800
incestuous afternoon to have a room full

1093
00:41:39,910 --> 00:41:38,160
of skeptics or

1094
00:41:42,710 --> 00:41:39,920
congratulating one another on their

1095
00:41:43,910 --> 00:41:42,720
skepticism he said he had done his best

1096
00:41:46,710 --> 00:41:43,920
to invite some

1097
00:41:48,550 --> 00:41:46,720
credulists to heckle and raise

1098
00:41:50,790 --> 00:41:48,560
alternative voices

1099
00:41:51,750 --> 00:41:50,800
in particular he had invited don and

1100
00:41:53,910 --> 00:41:51,760
joan roach

1101
00:41:55,750 --> 00:41:53,920
who had organized last may's second

1102
00:41:56,550 --> 00:41:55,760
alternative medicine festival in

1103
00:41:58,069 --> 00:41:56,560
canberra

1104
00:41:59,910 --> 00:41:58,079
in the alternatively splendid

1105
00:42:02,790 --> 00:41:59,920
surroundings of the diplomat

1106
00:42:04,710 --> 00:42:02,800
international in griffith and who had

1107
00:42:07,430 --> 00:42:04,720
objected to the skeptic's

1108
00:42:08,710 --> 00:42:07,440
picketing of the conference the

1109
00:42:11,829 --> 00:42:08,720
picketing skeptics

1110
00:42:14,309 --> 00:42:11,839
had been offering and continue to offer

1111
00:42:17,030 --> 00:42:14,319
twenty thousand dollar reward for just

1112
00:42:19,190 --> 00:42:17,040
one proved psychic occurrence

1113
00:42:21,030 --> 00:42:19,200
mr gray had not heard from the roaches

1114
00:42:21,829 --> 00:42:21,040
and i was unable to contact them

1115
00:42:24,390 --> 00:42:21,839
yesterday

1116
00:42:24,950 --> 00:42:24,400
but they and any other apologists for

1117
00:42:26,630 --> 00:42:24,960
tarot

1118
00:42:29,349 --> 00:42:26,640
and the occult creationism and the

1119
00:42:32,230 --> 00:42:29,359
prophecies of nostradamus and astrology

1120
00:42:32,950 --> 00:42:32,240
are welcome to attend the conference the

1121
00:42:36,470 --> 00:42:32,960
skeptics

1122
00:42:39,829 --> 00:42:36,480
make rather a fetish of openness which

1123
00:42:42,550 --> 00:42:39,839
it is prophesized will begin at 2 pm

1124
00:42:44,870 --> 00:42:42,560
in the seminar room of the jega building

1125
00:42:45,589 --> 00:42:44,880
research school of earth sciences mills

1126
00:42:48,390 --> 00:42:45,599
road

1127
00:42:49,030 --> 00:42:48,400
admission is a scarcely credible five

1128
00:42:52,550 --> 00:42:49,040
dollars

1129
00:42:55,589 --> 00:42:52,560
and 2.50 for students

1130
00:42:59,750 --> 00:42:55,599
now if we go to the 27th of may

1131
00:43:03,430 --> 00:42:59,760
in the canberra times 1986

1132
00:43:06,950 --> 00:43:03,440
letters to the editor skeptics doubts

1133
00:43:09,510 --> 00:43:06,960
it says received may 26 sir

1134
00:43:10,710 --> 00:43:09,520
canberra's skeptics take issue with the

1135
00:43:13,829 --> 00:43:10,720
statements of mr

1136
00:43:15,829 --> 00:43:13,839
rod roach organizer of the alternative

1137
00:43:18,790 --> 00:43:15,839
medicine and esp festival

1138
00:43:20,309 --> 00:43:18,800
last weekend the skeptic's offer of

1139
00:43:22,630 --> 00:43:20,319
twenty thousand dollars for a

1140
00:43:25,670 --> 00:43:22,640
demonstration of paranormal phenomena

1141
00:43:26,069 --> 00:43:25,680
is not quote so controlled that they

1142
00:43:29,109 --> 00:43:26,079
can't

1143
00:43:31,349 --> 00:43:29,119
get a result anyway end quote the

1144
00:43:33,270 --> 00:43:31,359
controls are normal scientific controls

1145
00:43:34,630 --> 00:43:33,280
designed to eliminate results arising

1146
00:43:36,950 --> 00:43:34,640
from chance fraud

1147
00:43:38,870 --> 00:43:36,960
or self-deception on the part of the

1148
00:43:40,790 --> 00:43:38,880
investigator or the subject

1149
00:43:42,790 --> 00:43:40,800
the skeptics had little to say about

1150
00:43:44,550 --> 00:43:42,800
alternative medicine based on the use of

1151
00:43:47,190 --> 00:43:44,560
herbs and acupuncture

1152
00:43:48,390 --> 00:43:47,200
except to advise the public to exercise

1153
00:43:51,190 --> 00:43:48,400
discretion in

1154
00:43:52,309 --> 00:43:51,200
evaluating claims the main problem with

1155
00:43:55,030 --> 00:43:52,319
alternative medicine

1156
00:43:55,990 --> 00:43:55,040
is that there are so many alternatives

1157
00:43:58,630 --> 00:43:56,000
the skeptics

1158
00:44:00,230 --> 00:43:58,640
questioned more severely the presence of

1159
00:44:01,270 --> 00:44:00,240
psychics and clairvoyance at the

1160
00:44:03,510 --> 00:44:01,280
festival

1161
00:44:05,829 --> 00:44:03,520
indulging in character reading and

1162
00:44:06,870 --> 00:44:05,839
prediction on the basis of methods such

1163
00:44:09,750 --> 00:44:06,880
as astrology

1164
00:44:10,710 --> 00:44:09,760
tarot reading and numerology methods for

1165
00:44:13,510 --> 00:44:10,720
which there is no

1166
00:44:14,309 --> 00:44:13,520
acceptable scientific basis and which

1167
00:44:17,109 --> 00:44:14,319
have never yet

1168
00:44:18,230 --> 00:44:17,119
been able to demonstrate results better

1169
00:44:21,670 --> 00:44:18,240
than chance under

1170
00:44:23,910 --> 00:44:21,680
controlled conditions mr roach also said

1171
00:44:24,790 --> 00:44:23,920
that if he had known the skeptics were

1172
00:44:26,790 --> 00:44:24,800
to be there

1173
00:44:28,150 --> 00:44:26,800
he would have organized a demonstration

1174
00:44:31,109 --> 00:44:28,160
of firewalking

1175
00:44:33,109 --> 00:44:31,119
and you can't fake that however research

1176
00:44:34,870 --> 00:44:33,119
by skeptics indicates that firewalking

1177
00:44:38,150 --> 00:44:34,880
does not involve any paranormal

1178
00:44:40,630 --> 00:44:38,160
phenomenon and can be done by anyone

1179
00:44:41,190 --> 00:44:40,640
it is also interesting that mr roach

1180
00:44:44,950 --> 00:44:41,200
claimed

1181
00:44:46,790 --> 00:44:44,960
not to know what a charlatan is

1182
00:44:48,630 --> 00:44:46,800
every other organization dealing with

1183
00:44:50,470 --> 00:44:48,640
the public is keen to expose its

1184
00:44:53,190 --> 00:44:50,480
unethical practitioners

1185
00:44:54,309 --> 00:44:53,200
to enhance the reputation of the

1186
00:44:56,950 --> 00:44:54,319
professionals

1187
00:44:59,750 --> 00:44:56,960
on mr roach's claims that the skeptics

1188
00:45:02,550 --> 00:44:59,760
got free publicity from his festival

1189
00:45:03,190 --> 00:45:02,560
the boot may well be on the other foot

1190
00:45:05,030 --> 00:45:03,200
certainly

1191
00:45:07,109 --> 00:45:05,040
psychics mystics and healers were

1192
00:45:08,790 --> 00:45:07,119
notoriously reluctant to gain any

1193
00:45:10,630 --> 00:45:08,800
publicity from the well-attended

1194
00:45:14,309 --> 00:45:10,640
skeptics convention in melbourne

1195
00:45:16,230 --> 00:45:14,319
last easter also mr roach avoided any

1196
00:45:18,710 --> 00:45:16,240
possibility of public debate with

1197
00:45:21,990 --> 00:45:18,720
skeptics in canberra mr roach

1198
00:45:24,870 --> 00:45:22,000
also said that his reputable people

1199
00:45:27,109 --> 00:45:24,880
paid a heck of a lot of money to

1200
00:45:29,990 --> 00:45:27,119
participate in his festival

1201
00:45:30,309 --> 00:45:30,000
skeptics ask only whether they did this

1202
00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:30,319
as

1203
00:45:37,190 --> 00:45:34,160
professionals

1204
00:45:39,270 --> 00:45:37,200
they expected to recap a handsome profit

1205
00:45:41,829 --> 00:45:39,280
from a gullible public

1206
00:45:44,150 --> 00:45:41,839
signed don leycock canberra committee

1207
00:45:47,670 --> 00:45:44,160
australian skeptics

1208
00:45:50,230 --> 00:45:47,680
now not surprisingly that received a

1209
00:45:51,349 --> 00:45:50,240
letter in reply or at least a letter to

1210
00:45:53,750 --> 00:45:51,359
the editor

1211
00:45:56,230 --> 00:45:53,760
uh some days later on the 4th of june

1212
00:45:59,670 --> 00:45:56,240
1986 in the camera times

1213
00:46:03,190 --> 00:45:59,680
and it says doubting the skeptic's view

1214
00:46:04,309 --> 00:46:03,200
received may 29 sir regarding the letter

1215
00:46:05,750 --> 00:46:04,319
from the canberra committee of the

1216
00:46:08,390 --> 00:46:05,760
australian skeptics

1217
00:46:10,230 --> 00:46:08,400
canberra times mate 27 it was like

1218
00:46:11,589 --> 00:46:10,240
stepping into a time capsule and

1219
00:46:14,150 --> 00:46:11,599
watching the inquisition

1220
00:46:15,670 --> 00:46:14,160
question galileo i got the distinct

1221
00:46:18,069 --> 00:46:15,680
impression that the skeptics

1222
00:46:19,510 --> 00:46:18,079
are sorry that we do not burn at the

1223
00:46:22,230 --> 00:46:19,520
stake anymore

1224
00:46:23,510 --> 00:46:22,240
i don't know what paranormal is not so

1225
00:46:26,950 --> 00:46:23,520
long ago hypnotism

1226
00:46:30,069 --> 00:46:26,960
telepathy telekinesis at al were

1227
00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:30,079
spooky now they are recognized by

1228
00:46:34,470 --> 00:46:31,680
orthodox science

1229
00:46:36,550 --> 00:46:34,480
good heavens what's the world coming to

1230
00:46:38,470 --> 00:46:36,560
we have departments of parapsychology in

1231
00:46:40,069 --> 00:46:38,480
our institutions of learning

1232
00:46:42,150 --> 00:46:40,079
the skeptics talk of science and

1233
00:46:43,030 --> 00:46:42,160
scientific method but what if some

1234
00:46:46,470 --> 00:46:43,040
phenomena

1235
00:46:48,790 --> 00:46:46,480
don't follow skeptics rules does it mean

1236
00:46:51,030 --> 00:46:48,800
the phenomena don't exist the

1237
00:46:51,990 --> 00:46:51,040
investigation of mediums is a case in

1238
00:46:54,390 --> 00:46:52,000
point

1239
00:46:55,270 --> 00:46:54,400
mediums are human some are good some are

1240
00:46:58,550 --> 00:46:55,280
bad some

1241
00:47:00,630 --> 00:46:58,560
cheat so what is the whole field

1242
00:47:02,630 --> 00:47:00,640
therefore discredited

1243
00:47:04,550 --> 00:47:02,640
is beethoven charlatan because he

1244
00:47:05,750 --> 00:47:04,560
couldn't produce masterpieces all the

1245
00:47:08,230 --> 00:47:05,760
time

1246
00:47:10,630 --> 00:47:08,240
the whole range of phenomena now has a

1247
00:47:13,190 --> 00:47:10,640
huge bank of evidence supporting it

1248
00:47:14,230 --> 00:47:13,200
various mental physical and psychic

1249
00:47:16,150 --> 00:47:14,240
phenomena

1250
00:47:17,670 --> 00:47:16,160
it's a pity it doesn't fall within the

1251
00:47:21,589 --> 00:47:17,680
skeptic's black or white

1252
00:47:24,630 --> 00:47:21,599
tabulation but it exists nonetheless

1253
00:47:27,430 --> 00:47:24,640
and one would have to be ridiculously

1254
00:47:29,109 --> 00:47:27,440
narrow-minded to pretend otherwise

1255
00:47:30,630 --> 00:47:29,119
neither will these manifestations go

1256
00:47:31,910 --> 00:47:30,640
away just because the canberra committee

1257
00:47:34,309 --> 00:47:31,920
of australian skeptics

1258
00:47:35,030 --> 00:47:34,319
says so as for the twenty thousand

1259
00:47:38,630 --> 00:47:35,040
dollar

1260
00:47:41,109 --> 00:47:38,640
quotes reward end quotes no one of the

1261
00:47:43,670 --> 00:47:41,119
skeptics are troubled by charlatans

1262
00:47:45,430 --> 00:47:43,680
they have issued an rsvp to every

1263
00:47:47,510 --> 00:47:45,440
charlatan within miles

1264
00:47:49,589 --> 00:47:47,520
knowledge cannot be bought the skeptics

1265
00:47:51,030 --> 00:47:49,599
would do much better to adopt a truly

1266
00:47:53,270 --> 00:47:51,040
scientific attitude

1267
00:47:54,309 --> 00:47:53,280
and go out among the healers psychics

1268
00:47:57,190 --> 00:47:54,319
and mediums

1269
00:47:58,870 --> 00:47:57,200
and quietly investigate be open-minded

1270
00:48:00,950 --> 00:47:58,880
but not gullible

1271
00:48:02,549 --> 00:48:00,960
admit that their well-defined universe

1272
00:48:04,950 --> 00:48:02,559
may be boundless

1273
00:48:06,470 --> 00:48:04,960
as for fire walking and i don't know if

1274
00:48:08,870 --> 00:48:06,480
it is paranormal

1275
00:48:09,589 --> 00:48:08,880
it would be fun to see the skeptics all

1276
00:48:12,230 --> 00:48:09,599
in a row

1277
00:48:13,589 --> 00:48:12,240
hot footing it across a fire pit made by

1278
00:48:15,589 --> 00:48:13,599
the psychics

1279
00:48:17,030 --> 00:48:15,599
perhaps the astrologers could predict

1280
00:48:22,790 --> 00:48:17,040
what would happen

1281
00:48:26,150 --> 00:48:24,230
wow i could spend a whole episode

1282
00:48:29,109 --> 00:48:26,160
unpacking the

1283
00:48:30,349 --> 00:48:29,119
uh logical fallacies and the false

1284
00:48:32,790 --> 00:48:30,359
statements and the

1285
00:48:36,390 --> 00:48:32,800
inconsistencies and the tithe arguments

1286
00:48:38,230 --> 00:48:36,400
from that letter but that is from 1986

1287
00:48:39,829 --> 00:48:38,240
and of course skeptics all over the

1288
00:48:42,069 --> 00:48:39,839
world including myself

1289
00:48:43,109 --> 00:48:42,079
many times have been hot footing it

1290
00:48:45,750 --> 00:48:43,119
across

1291
00:48:47,510 --> 00:48:45,760
fire pits that was an interesting letter

1292
00:48:47,990 --> 00:48:47,520
certainly lots of false premises and

1293
00:48:51,270 --> 00:48:48,000
special

1294
00:48:53,190 --> 00:48:51,280
pleading and finally let's skip forward

1295
00:48:55,510 --> 00:48:53,200
to the year 1988

1296
00:48:57,990 --> 00:48:55,520
on the 3rd of april once again in the

1297
00:49:01,750 --> 00:48:58,000
canberra times

1298
00:49:04,710 --> 00:49:01,760
outrageous psychic scam wins award from

1299
00:49:09,510 --> 00:49:07,349
sydney an adelaide clairvoyant who

1300
00:49:12,069 --> 00:49:09,520
claimed to know the location of the long

1301
00:49:14,390 --> 00:49:12,079
lost colossus of rhodes won the

1302
00:49:16,309 --> 00:49:14,400
australian skeptics association's bent

1303
00:49:19,270 --> 00:49:16,319
spoon award yesterday

1304
00:49:19,990 --> 00:49:19,280
the award for the quote most outrageous

1305
00:49:23,190 --> 00:49:20,000
psychic

1306
00:49:26,309 --> 00:49:23,200
scam end quote followed ms

1307
00:49:28,309 --> 00:49:26,319
anne dankbaar's claim last year that the

1308
00:49:29,750 --> 00:49:28,319
ancient statue was lying off the greek

1309
00:49:31,510 --> 00:49:29,760
islands

1310
00:49:33,670 --> 00:49:31,520
the association holding its annual

1311
00:49:36,470 --> 00:49:33,680
convention in sydney over the weekend

1312
00:49:37,750 --> 00:49:36,480
also presented the 1 000 skeptical

1313
00:49:40,470 --> 00:49:37,760
journalism award

1314
00:49:41,349 --> 00:49:40,480
to an abc television journalist and

1315
00:49:43,270 --> 00:49:41,359
researcher

1316
00:49:44,390 --> 00:49:43,280
who disproved claims that a small

1317
00:49:47,430 --> 00:49:44,400
plastic device

1318
00:49:49,349 --> 00:49:47,440
improved cars fuel efficiency the

1319
00:49:50,150 --> 00:49:49,359
president of the association mr barry

1320
00:49:53,589 --> 00:49:50,160
williams

1321
00:49:55,829 --> 00:49:53,599
said mr john millard and mr john dawes

1322
00:49:57,190 --> 00:49:55,839
had shown the best traditions of

1323
00:49:59,510 --> 00:49:57,200
skeptical journalism

1324
00:50:01,430 --> 00:49:59,520
in their report shown on the

1325
00:50:04,470 --> 00:50:01,440
investigators

1326
00:50:07,190 --> 00:50:04,480
and just as an aside again

1327
00:50:09,109 --> 00:50:07,200
the investigators was a consumer affair

1328
00:50:11,109 --> 00:50:09,119
investigating program in the 80s which

1329
00:50:14,790 --> 00:50:11,119
was incredibly popular

1330
00:50:17,829 --> 00:50:14,800
and did a lot of good for consumers

1331
00:50:18,790 --> 00:50:17,839
we read on but mr williams said there

1332
00:50:21,030 --> 00:50:18,800
had been no

1333
00:50:22,069 --> 00:50:21,040
successful nominations for the twenty

1334
00:50:24,870 --> 00:50:22,079
thousand dollar

1335
00:50:26,470 --> 00:50:24,880
skeptics challenge award made to any

1336
00:50:27,910 --> 00:50:26,480
psychics who could prove their claim

1337
00:50:29,030 --> 00:50:27,920
under scientifically controlled

1338
00:50:32,309 --> 00:50:29,040
conditions

1339
00:50:35,270 --> 00:50:32,319
about 150 skeptics took part yesterday

1340
00:50:36,150 --> 00:50:35,280
in discussions challenging ufos creation

1341
00:50:38,790 --> 00:50:36,160
science

1342
00:50:41,030 --> 00:50:38,800
astrology and mythical animals such as

1343
00:50:43,349 --> 00:50:41,040
the loch ness monster

1344
00:50:44,150 --> 00:50:43,359
today panel discussions will focus on

1345
00:50:47,030 --> 00:50:44,160
traditional

1346
00:50:47,910 --> 00:50:47,040
versus alternative medicines including

1347
00:50:50,950 --> 00:50:47,920
new age

1348
00:50:53,270 --> 00:50:50,960
crystal healing techniques the 600

1349
00:50:54,309 --> 00:50:53,280
member association which was established

1350
00:50:56,710 --> 00:50:54,319
eight years ago

1351
00:50:57,510 --> 00:50:56,720
aims to encourage rational debate about

1352
00:51:00,470 --> 00:50:57,520
so-called

1353
00:51:05,349 --> 00:51:00,480
supernatural and psychic events

1354
00:51:08,309 --> 00:51:06,950
well there we go just a selection of

1355
00:51:10,069 --> 00:51:08,319
some of the times the australian

1356
00:51:11,510 --> 00:51:10,079
skeptics have been mentioned

1357
00:51:13,910 --> 00:51:11,520
well in this case especially in the

1358
00:51:15,510 --> 00:51:13,920
canberra times over the years and there

1359
00:51:16,390 --> 00:51:15,520
are more there are more going into the

1360
00:51:19,510 --> 00:51:16,400
uh

1361
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:19,520
into 90s and beyond but i thought

1362
00:51:27,270 --> 00:51:23,050
that was an interesting selection

1363
00:51:30,549 --> 00:51:29,109
once again the treasure trove of

1364
00:51:32,390 --> 00:51:30,559
information at trove is at your

1365
00:51:34,829 --> 00:51:32,400
fingertips around the world

1366
00:51:35,990 --> 00:51:34,839
all you have to do is visit

1367
00:51:38,630 --> 00:51:36,000
trove.nla.gov

1368
00:51:39,589 --> 00:51:38,640
a u type in your search and you never

1369
00:51:59,750 --> 00:51:39,599
know

1370
00:52:03,349 --> 00:52:01,349
thank you for listening to the skeptic's

1371
00:52:04,230 --> 00:52:03,359
own podcast coming up on next week's

1372
00:52:05,990 --> 00:52:04,240
show

1373
00:52:07,589 --> 00:52:06,000
more logical fallacies with michelle

1374
00:52:10,549 --> 00:52:07,599
bickersma

1375
00:52:11,990 --> 00:52:10,559
and a mystery and another mystery and

1376
00:52:13,270 --> 00:52:12,000
another mystery in other words i haven't

1377
00:52:14,870 --> 00:52:13,280
put the show together yet so it's a

1378
00:52:17,990 --> 00:52:14,880
mystery to me too

1379
00:52:21,349 --> 00:52:18,000
hmm what's no mystery what's no mystery

1380
00:52:22,069 --> 00:52:21,359
is the help and support of listeners

1381
00:52:23,910 --> 00:52:22,079
just like you

1382
00:52:25,190 --> 00:52:23,920
who contribute to the skeptic zone every

1383
00:52:27,790 --> 00:52:25,200
week or every month

1384
00:52:29,430 --> 00:52:27,800
using paypal or patreon at

1385
00:52:31,030 --> 00:52:29,440
skepticzone.tv

1386
00:52:32,630 --> 00:52:31,040
and if that wasn't the case then it

1387
00:52:33,990 --> 00:52:32,640
would be a mystery if the show kept

1388
00:52:37,270 --> 00:52:34,000
going at all

1389
00:52:41,030 --> 00:52:37,280
thank you very much and just to note

1390
00:52:42,790 --> 00:52:41,040
last week i put out a caller plea

1391
00:52:45,349 --> 00:52:42,800
if anyone could help me i was looking

1392
00:52:46,790 --> 00:52:45,359
for something called the corex files by

1393
00:52:49,430 --> 00:52:46,800
our friend professor

1394
00:52:50,710 --> 00:52:49,440
associate professor paul willis these

1395
00:52:54,390 --> 00:52:50,720
were a series of

1396
00:52:59,990 --> 00:52:54,400
short three four five minute

1397
00:53:01,430 --> 00:53:00,000
radio shows he did in 1997 and 1998 and

1398
00:53:04,069 --> 00:53:01,440
they've been lost

1399
00:53:05,510 --> 00:53:04,079
lost for many years now although the

1400
00:53:08,309 --> 00:53:05,520
website is still there

1401
00:53:10,390 --> 00:53:08,319
the website links to broken audio files

1402
00:53:13,270 --> 00:53:10,400
audio files which don't exist

1403
00:53:14,390 --> 00:53:13,280
well in the last week with a little bit

1404
00:53:16,710 --> 00:53:14,400
of uh

1405
00:53:17,829 --> 00:53:16,720
asking around a little bit of work i

1406
00:53:20,390 --> 00:53:17,839
managed to collect

1407
00:53:21,910 --> 00:53:20,400
all the back episodes all the episodes

1408
00:53:23,829 --> 00:53:21,920
of the corrects files

1409
00:53:26,549 --> 00:53:23,839
and deliver them to a grateful paul

1410
00:53:29,030 --> 00:53:26,559
willis now

1411
00:53:30,069 --> 00:53:29,040
i hope i'm going to have a chat to paul

1412
00:53:32,150 --> 00:53:30,079
and maybe

1413
00:53:34,150 --> 00:53:32,160
we can resurrect the corex files and use

1414
00:53:35,589 --> 00:53:34,160
them in some form some fashion

1415
00:53:38,390 --> 00:53:35,599
they're quite fascinating lots of

1416
00:53:41,109 --> 00:53:38,400
interviews with very eminent people

1417
00:53:41,990 --> 00:53:41,119
in the late part of last century still

1418
00:53:45,270 --> 00:53:42,000
nevertheless it's

1419
00:53:47,270 --> 00:53:45,280
all good science so uh

1420
00:53:48,309 --> 00:53:47,280
what they say watch this space listen to

1421
00:53:49,829 --> 00:53:48,319
this space

1422
00:53:51,910 --> 00:53:49,839
and we'll let you know how that

1423
00:53:53,990 --> 00:53:51,920
progresses

1424
00:53:55,510 --> 00:53:54,000
but for this week this is richard

1425
00:54:01,829 --> 00:53:55,520
saunders signing off

1426
00:54:05,109 --> 00:54:03,589
you've been listening to the skeptic

1427
00:54:08,270 --> 00:54:05,119
zone podcast

1428
00:54:09,670 --> 00:54:08,280
please visit our website at

1429
00:54:12,710 --> 00:54:09,680
www.skepticzone.tv

1430
00:54:14,710 --> 00:54:12,720
for show notes contacts and to access

1431
00:54:18,230 --> 00:54:14,720
the back catalog of episodes

1432
00:54:20,309 --> 00:54:18,240
going back to 2008. you can follow the

1433
00:54:23,750 --> 00:54:20,319
skepticzone podcast on twitter

1434
00:54:24,870 --> 00:54:23,760
at skepticzone visit our facebook page

1435
00:54:27,829 --> 00:54:24,880
or leave a review

1436
00:54:28,710 --> 00:54:27,839
on itunes you can also support the

1437
00:54:32,710 --> 00:54:28,720
skeptic zone

1438
00:54:35,589 --> 00:54:32,720
podcast

1439
00:54:37,349 --> 00:54:35,599
is an independent production the views

1440
00:54:39,349 --> 00:54:37,359
and opinions expressed on the skeptic

1441
00:54:40,710 --> 00:54:39,359
zone are not necessarily those of

1442
00:54:53,829 --> 00:54:40,720
australian skeptics

1443
00:54:56,390 --> 00:54:53,839
or any other skeptical organization

1444
00:54:57,589 --> 00:54:56,400
you have a kitchen sink you guys don't

1445
00:54:59,750 --> 00:54:57,599
have a clue

1446
00:55:01,349 --> 00:54:59,760
how awesome it is to have a kitchen sink

1447
00:55:03,270 --> 00:55:01,359
well and a garbage

1448
00:55:05,109 --> 00:55:03,280
now now the whole of the skeptic zone

1449
00:55:08,069 --> 00:55:05,119
audience knows now susan but you're

1450
00:55:11,109 --> 00:55:08,079
excited to have a kitchen sink

1451
00:55:14,230 --> 00:55:11,119
oh my gosh you guys i'm live

1452
00:55:14,630 --> 00:55:14,240
in my bathroom sink for seven weeks i am

1453
00:55:17,270 --> 00:55:14,640
so

1454
00:55:17,750 --> 00:55:17,280
excited no when we're not live it's all

1455
00:55:20,230 --> 00:55:17,760
right

1456
00:55:22,069 --> 00:55:20,240
i'll edit that out wink wink anyway hi

1457
00:55:23,589 --> 00:55:22,079
this is uh richard sanders here at the

1458
00:55:26,150 --> 00:55:23,599
prediction project we're back again

1459
00:55:28,069 --> 00:55:26,160
after a hiatus for about a month where

1460
00:55:30,309 --> 00:55:28,079
i had some other things on and uh what

1461
00:55:31,349 --> 00:55:30,319
was there's some event last week that we

1462
00:55:34,390 --> 00:55:31,359
couldn't make it i

1463
00:55:36,390 --> 00:55:34,400
can't a remember something

1464
00:55:39,430 --> 00:55:36,400
that was happening in america something

1465
00:55:41,510 --> 00:55:39,440
like important on tuesday

1466
00:55:42,470 --> 00:55:41,520
it probably was but we're plowing

1467
00:55:44,630 --> 00:55:42,480
through we've

1468
00:55:46,230 --> 00:55:44,640
we're i think the end's in sight for the

1469
00:55:47,670 --> 00:55:46,240
great prediction project but i've spent

1470
00:55:48,390 --> 00:55:47,680
the last two hours with a group of

1471
00:55:50,950 --> 00:55:48,400
friends

1472
00:55:51,510 --> 00:55:50,960
happily predicting away with wendy

1473
00:55:54,870 --> 00:55:51,520
leonard

1474
00:55:57,910 --> 00:55:54,880
susan rob and adrian and we

1475
00:55:59,910 --> 00:55:57,920
had probably the biggest laugh of the

1476
00:56:02,470 --> 00:55:59,920
whole project

1477
00:56:04,390 --> 00:56:02,480
a little while ago where i posted a

1478
00:56:06,630 --> 00:56:04,400
prediction susan can you scroll up and

1479
00:56:09,829 --> 00:56:06,640
find that prediction for us again

1480
00:56:12,230 --> 00:56:09,839
oh my goodness it is from astrologer

1481
00:56:12,870 --> 00:56:12,240
milton black and what you've had and

1482
00:56:19,030 --> 00:56:12,880
what does i

1483
00:56:23,430 --> 00:56:21,950
and he gives his a prediction back in

1484
00:56:26,390 --> 00:56:23,440
2017.

1485
00:56:27,910 --> 00:56:26,400
for the publication what's in the stars

1486
00:56:30,630 --> 00:56:27,920
for 2017

1487
00:56:31,670 --> 00:56:30,640
yes oh this was published in the in fact

1488
00:56:34,950 --> 00:56:31,680
it was published in the

1489
00:56:37,109 --> 00:56:34,960
uh daily telegraph newspaper oh

1490
00:56:38,470 --> 00:56:37,119
yes oh that was the title of the article

1491
00:56:40,470 --> 00:56:38,480
i must have missed that

1492
00:56:42,069 --> 00:56:40,480
the title was what's in the stars and

1493
00:56:44,150 --> 00:56:42,079
what what what did

1494
00:56:45,430 --> 00:56:44,160
milton black be famed and noted

1495
00:56:48,470 --> 00:56:45,440
astrologer

1496
00:56:52,069 --> 00:56:48,480
who specializes in political forecasting

1497
00:56:55,990 --> 00:56:52,079
what did he have to say susan

1498
00:56:58,309 --> 00:56:56,000
um he said donald trump will make a good

1499
00:56:59,270 --> 00:56:58,319
president and his cabinet will be the

1500
00:57:07,910 --> 00:56:59,280
best in

1501
00:57:11,430 --> 00:57:09,750
we're laughing all over again i was

1502
00:57:12,630 --> 00:57:11,440
about to say what was our reaction i

1503
00:57:14,710 --> 00:57:12,640
didn't have to you

1504
00:57:16,549 --> 00:57:14,720
everyone's thrusting in this love it's

1505
00:57:18,630 --> 00:57:16,559
funny every time i hear it

1506
00:57:21,190 --> 00:57:18,640
that's really funny it just shows you

1507
00:57:22,870 --> 00:57:21,200
how accurate this astrologer is boy i

1508
00:57:25,190 --> 00:57:22,880
tell you that was

1509
00:57:25,990 --> 00:57:25,200
he so i don't know i don't i'm gonna go

1510
00:57:28,950 --> 00:57:26,000
get my my

1511
00:57:31,349 --> 00:57:28,960
stars read by him and just do the

1512
00:57:33,990 --> 00:57:31,359
opposite of whatever he says

1513
00:57:35,670 --> 00:57:34,000
all right so this in fact this will be

1514
00:57:36,630 --> 00:57:35,680
the easter egg susan so we're gonna play

1515
00:57:41,589 --> 00:57:36,640
the dice game

1516
00:57:43,190 --> 00:57:41,599
and then we'll wrap it up

1517
00:57:44,870 --> 00:57:43,200
you can't tell anybody all right don't

1518
00:57:48,470 --> 00:57:44,880
tell anybody so this is

1519
00:57:51,750 --> 00:57:48,480
look at that look at oh that's a big

1520
00:57:59,030 --> 00:57:51,760
d10 much bigger five on it what's it got

1521
00:58:03,030 --> 00:58:00,390
when i played the game last time were

1522
00:58:04,470 --> 00:58:03,040
all fours and as i recall

1523
00:58:06,390 --> 00:58:04,480
you said i got none of them right so i

1524
00:58:09,589 --> 00:58:06,400
never saw the die so i'm not really sure

1525
00:58:10,309 --> 00:58:09,599
this time you can verify um yeah of

1526
00:58:13,589 --> 00:58:10,319
course folks

1527
00:58:15,589 --> 00:58:13,599
if if you haven't guessed we're on zoom

1528
00:58:18,549 --> 00:58:15,599
so we can all see each other

1529
00:58:20,230 --> 00:58:18,559
and i'm just ah haha i'm looking for a

1530
00:58:22,390 --> 00:58:20,240
little

1531
00:58:24,470 --> 00:58:22,400
clear container so i can shake the die

1532
00:58:27,670 --> 00:58:24,480
and show you all so you can verify

1533
00:58:29,109 --> 00:58:27,680
so there you are it's in the container

1534
00:58:31,270 --> 00:58:29,119
then you're fine here we go i'm going to

1535
00:58:33,829 --> 00:58:31,280
roll it bye

1536
00:58:34,630 --> 00:58:33,839
the first number folks this week is what

1537
00:58:35,990 --> 00:58:34,640
you haven't you

1538
00:58:38,390 --> 00:58:36,000
all you haven't predicted susan's

1539
00:58:39,510 --> 00:58:38,400
predicted so all of you have if susan's

1540
00:58:42,870 --> 00:58:39,520
predicted five

1541
00:58:46,069 --> 00:58:42,880
leonard what do you predict three

1542
00:58:49,270 --> 00:58:46,079
three adrian nine nine

1543
00:58:55,589 --> 00:58:49,280
rob i'm sticking with my four four

1544
00:59:01,750 --> 00:58:59,270
seven seven seven seven

1545
00:59:02,870 --> 00:59:01,760
does anybody say seven how many sided

1546
00:59:06,069 --> 00:59:02,880
die i didn't even see that

1547
00:59:07,589 --> 00:59:06,079
ten seven first number

1548
00:59:09,430 --> 00:59:07,599
oh we're gonna write that down number

1549
00:59:10,549 --> 00:59:09,440
seven okay next predict

1550
00:59:16,230 --> 00:59:10,559
are you gonna stick with your

1551
00:59:24,549 --> 00:59:19,510
next number is seven

1552
00:59:28,230 --> 00:59:26,069
stupid thing is the five on the other

1553
00:59:31,349 --> 00:59:28,240
side of the seven

1554
00:59:31,990 --> 00:59:31,359
seven write that down seven look at look

1555
00:59:35,030 --> 00:59:32,000
at the bottom

1556
00:59:37,589 --> 00:59:35,040
of it i'm really shaking it up well this

1557
00:59:41,670 --> 00:59:37,599
time just in case

1558
00:59:44,710 --> 00:59:41,680
you see that and five

1559
00:59:47,750 --> 00:59:44,720
two seven four

1560
00:59:49,990 --> 00:59:47,760
yeah finally look on the bottom of that

1561
00:59:51,349 --> 00:59:50,000
look on the bottom of that seven richard

1562
00:59:53,109 --> 00:59:51,359
i want to know if it's a five

1563
00:59:54,870 --> 00:59:53,119
uh no actually the bottom of the seven

1564
00:59:55,750 --> 00:59:54,880
directly beneath it so to speak is a

1565
00:59:58,470 --> 00:59:55,760
cross between a

1566
01:00:00,630 --> 00:59:58,480
ten and a four anyway it's four both

1567
01:00:02,069 --> 01:00:00,640
games i've predicted four for six rolls

1568
01:00:02,789 --> 01:00:02,079
and i got one of them right what are the

1569
01:00:05,670 --> 01:00:02,799
odds of that

1570
01:00:07,109 --> 01:00:05,680
what are the odds well there's less

1571
01:00:09,109 --> 01:00:07,119
windy who would know

1572
01:00:11,190 --> 01:00:09,119
all about that i i would have to say the

1573
01:00:11,750 --> 01:00:11,200
odds must be crazy the odds must be

1574
01:00:15,349 --> 01:00:11,760
crazy

1575
01:00:17,990 --> 01:00:15,359
be anyway

1576
01:00:18,950 --> 01:00:18,000
folks this week's winning numbers are

1577
01:00:23,030 --> 01:00:18,960
seven

1578
01:00:26,470 --> 01:00:23,040
numbers in

1579
01:00:29,829 --> 01:00:26,480
uh congratulations and sorry

1580
01:00:34,710 --> 01:00:29,839
sorry susan it wasn't there five someday

1581
01:00:36,710 --> 01:00:34,720
it's sunday someday thanks everyone